gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Toblacher on January 12, 2012, 01:52:16 AM
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Submitted for your outrage:
http://thousandfoldecho.com/2012/01/10/concertus-interruptus/
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. . . which is why I have retired the 9th in terms of live performances.
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Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. Too bad it happened to be during Mahler's Ninth. If this had been in Europe or Britain, the guy would have been dragged out by the collar.
Wade
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This was totally outrageous. Didn't the guy think? Or was he just an idiot?
I dont't attend concerts when I have a cold risking to disturb others by my coughing and I always leave my cell phone at home when going to a concert.
Roffe
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Yes I'm puzzled that there wasn't an Avery Fifher Hall official to find and remove the culprit at New Yorker speed.
Ivor
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. . . New York has gone soft. It's just not the same place. :-[
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I suppose we Mahlerians cannot expect standard concertgoers to appreciate this, but for me such an interruption is an egregious offense againt the music, the musicians, the conductor, the composer, and those who attended with the expectation of a sublime experience.
Like Roffe, I do not attend concerts if I have a cold--it would be such a disrespect to all involved to begin coughing. According to the reports, this cellphone continued ringing for several minutes.
Why were ushers not present to immediately eject the premeditatively rude offending person in the audience? (He intentionally brought the cellphone and did not turn it off.)
It is so sad that, for many of us who so revere Mahler's music, we should have to relegate it to listening at home, out of fear that public performances might be disrupted.
The blame lies in the hands of the NY Philharmonic administrators who did not have in place procedures to immediately eject offensive ticket-buyers (I refuse to call such people music-lovers). Shame on adjacent audience members too, who did not identify and request the removal of one who premeditatively stole a moving experience from so many!
If inaction or "a deaf ear is turned to" such disturbances, how can serious music lovers continue to feel welcome at live performances?
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Reading the associated articles, it looks like the man had actually silenced his iPhone (there is a button to switch the ringer on/off -- for those that do not know), but he had an alarm event set on it that made noise nonetheless. I just tested/duplicated this on my iPhone, which scares me because I always take that same action to "silence" my iPhone at a concert.
On a side note, I sat next to the wife of pianist Kirill Gerstein at last Sunday's HSO performance of Rach 3. Every time someone around us coughed or made any sort of loud noise, she turned to stare at them (which is something I'd like to do -- I just don't have the guts). There were one or two phones that went off during the performance too. At the end of his performance, I made a comment in jest about the crowd being good despite the mid-performance phone ringing. She didn't laugh.
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Reading the associated articles, it looks like the man had actually silenced his iPhone (there is a button to switch the ringer on/off -- for those that do not know), but he had an alarm event set on it that made noise nonetheless.
Here's the complete article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/nyregion/ringing-finally-stopped-but-concertgoers-alarm-persists.html?_r=1
James
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Here's one person's suggestion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrJL87XGQs&feature=related
Ivor
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After reading the New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/nyregion/ringing-finally-stopped-but-concertgoers-alarm-persists.html?_r=1) I can only conclude that this was an unfortunate case of "When bad things happen to good people...":
"Actually, Patron X said he had no idea he was the culprit. He said his company replaced his BlackBerry with an iPhone the day before the concert. He said he made sure to turn it off before the concert, not realizing that the alarm clock had accidentally been set and would sound even if the phone was in silent mode."
It's hard for me to find fault with Patron X after reading that. I really don't know what else to say. This doesn't look like a premeditated act, and...to be completely honest...some of the comments I've read on the internet about this really bother me. Yes, cell phones should be muted during concerts. Yes, it's the considerate thing to do. But, as so oftenly happens, people rushed to conclusions. Many bloggers and the like assumed that Patron X knowingly left his phone on audible ring. They assumed that Patron X knew his phone was the one ringing and deliberately ignored it. And some even went so far as to refer to this insident as "premeditated."
I am a huge fan of classical music and Mahler's Ninth in particular. I believe in the preservation of live performance and am all for keeping concert-hall distractions down to a minimum. But life happens. There's not much more I can say.
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"Premeditated" was not as accurate as perhaps would be "callous and egregious negligence."
For those of us who feel Mahler's music as an almost spiritual experience, to have the live performance disrupted by something which could and should have been obviated, is an intolerable deprivation to those who bought their tickets with an expectation of an uninterrupted experience.
If you can't drive a car responsibly, don't drive. If you can't control your cellphone, don't bring it.
With both, please don't harm others.
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After reading the New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/nyregion/ringing-finally-stopped-but-concertgoers-alarm-persists.html?_r=1) I can only conclude that this was an unfortunate case of "When bad things happen to good people...":
"Actually, Patron X said he had no idea he was the culprit. He said his company replaced his BlackBerry with an iPhone the day before the concert. He said he made sure to turn it off before the concert, not realizing that the alarm clock had accidentally been set and would sound even if the phone was in silent mode."
It's hard for me to find fault with Patron X after reading that. I really don't know what else to say. This doesn't look like a premeditated act, and...to be completely honest...some of the comments I've read on the internet about this really bother me. Yes, cell phones should be muted during concerts. Yes, it's the considerate thing to do. But, as so oftenly happens, people rushed to conclusions. Many bloggers and the like assumed that Patron X knowingly left his phone on audible ring. They assumed that Patron X knew his phone was the one ringing and deliberately ignored it. And some even went so far as to refer to this insident as "premeditated."
I am a huge fan of classical music and Mahler's Ninth in particular. I believe in the preservation of live performance and am all for keeping concert-hall distractions down to a minimum. But life happens. There's not much more I can say.
I agree Michael. Life happens and we have no control when it comes down to it.
--Todd
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"Premeditated" was not as accurate as perhaps would be "callous and egregious negligence."
For those of us who feel Mahler's music as an almost spiritual experience, to have the live performance disrupted by something which could and should have been obviated, is an intolerable deprivation to those who bought their tickets with an expectation of an uninterrupted experience.
If you can't drive a car responsibly, don't drive. If you can't control your cellphone, don't bring it.
With both, please don't harm others.
I agree with what you say. We should all be held responsible for our actions, even if they are not intentional. I'm sure the guy felt horrible, but still, it's inexcusable.
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I agree with what you say. We should all be held responsible for our actions, even if they are not intentional. I'm sure the guy felt horrible, but still, it's inexcusable.
I can see that some feel it is harsh to condemn this individual for what happened, but I am very stubborn about chastising him for his irresponsibility and his negligence. I am stubborn about this because I understand how cheated many would feel, to have a moving experience of M9 so dreadfully interrupted because of carelessness, irresponsibility, or negligence. I hope for me that Mahler never becomes "elevator music," where I would easily tolerate missing several minutes or even seconds of a performance.
If we are to be forced to accept such interruptions as normal and acceptable, then some of us will join Barry in his response:
. . . which is why I have retired the 9th in terms of live performances.
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Constantin,
If Mahler's Ninth is so important to you that you would be unable to move past an accidental interuption in a live performance you were attending, then yes, I think sticking just to recordings is probably the best option. If it were someone who deliberately left their phone on audible ring, yeah, I'd feel differently. However...the New York Times article basically said that Patron X did not know that putting the iPhone on "mute" does not silence the alarm...not to mention not knowing about the alarm being set in the first place. Is there such a thing any more as giving someone the benefit of the doubt?
Obviously, I wasn't there. But I would like to think that if I had been there, my reaction to the situation, once I was presented with the facts, would have been compassionate.
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Yes, M9. and all Mahler for that matter, are so important to me that I strongly disapprove of any interruptions. It does not show respect for the music, the musicians, the conductor, or the audience.
From what I read in the newspaper stories, the "alarm" continued for several minutes, resulting in the conductor being distracted and asking the man if he were ready to continue.
Yes, I could stay home and listen to Mahler recordings, but I feel cheated to be forced to give up live performances.
A person who does not know how to drive a car should not do it, and a person who cannot keep his cellphone quiet should not bring it or be certain he knows how to silence it before interrupting a performance.
Mahler is too sacred to me to have disruptions. I know what Mahler would have done, had he been conducting, and it would likely have been more harsh than the conductor involved here.
Yes, I understand that everyone wants to be compassionate, but it should also be a two-way street: those attending live performances owe it to the music and music-lovers not to detract from their enjoyment.
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If the nearby audience knew, and the conductor knew, how could the owner not know the source of the noise?
Perhaps he was stunned by sheer panic and embarrassment at not knowing what to do. I know that if it was me, after a few seconds I think I would have made a dash for the nearest exit.
Accidents will happen. But it's not an accident when some yahoo leaps up before the last chord has faded and hollers "Bravo". That is another real mood killer, and the offenders should be stoned on the spot. Perhaps people could throw mobile phones at them ;D
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But it's not an accident when some yahoo leaps up before the last chord has faded and hollers "Bravo". That is another real mood killer, and the offenders should be stoned on the spot. Perhaps people could throw mobile phones at them ;D
M9 requires at least a minute or two in total silence after the music has faded away. So please, no applause or "bravo", thank you.
Roffe
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Constantin,
If Mahler's Ninth is so important to you that you would be unable to move past an accidental interuption in a live performance you were attending, then yes, I think sticking just to recordings is probably the best option. If it were someone who deliberately left their phone on audible ring, yeah, I'd feel differently. However...the New York Times article basically said that Patron X did not know that putting the iPhone on "mute" does not silence the alarm...not to mention not knowing about the alarm being set in the first place. Is there such a thing any more as giving someone the benefit of the doubt?
Obviously, I wasn't there. But I would like to think that if I had been there, my reaction to the situation, once I was presented with the facts, would have been compassionate.
I don't think there is any doubt that it was an accident, and Patron X obviously feels horrible, but unfortunately this is not a question of his intent. It's the fact that he was negligent and ruined an entire concert for a hall full of people. In the big scheme of things this is not a ridiculous crime, nothing of the sort - it was just an accident. But music like this is a shared act of creation, a chance for us to move beyond this world, and it is frustrating that it was ruined by something as banal as a cell phone.
If anything can be learned by this it is that going to see a live music event, something like a Mahler symphony, is a special event and that concert goers should be extremely conscientious in making sure that they don't ruin it for others. I think concert etiquette is extremely important - going to see music performed live is nothing like listening to it on recording - for many attendees their own mental concentration is key in enjoying the event, and so etiquette becomes almost as important as the level of the musicianship of the performers.
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"Accidents will happen. But it's not an accident when some yahoo leaps up before the last chord has faded and hollers "Bravo". That is another real mood killer, and the offenders should be stoned on the spot. "
I did that once, at the end of M6, when I was a greenhorn 20-year-old. M6 was, and is, m favourite piece of music. I'd heard a wonderful performance tho' I was naive enough not to have been deeply affected the way I am these days.[ A performance i went to a few years ago had me in tears into my girlfriend's arms for about 10 minutes afterwards.] So I ws full to the gunnells with appreciation, and it was a Prom in the days the Prommers regularly erupted fortissimo.
Perhaps a lot of people go through a phase of wanting to erupt first. In my case, that passed a long time ago.
Of course I've since regretted it. Nevertheless I looked forward to a repeat broadcast the following Spring and was relieved to hear the beeb couldn't broadcast the performance as, by mistake, the taped had been wiped.
Perhaps the positive of the latest event is that some more people have become sensitised to mobiles. Otoh, nothing seems to stem the continuing, seemngly eternal members of the Coughers' Union.
Ivor
P.S. I can't tell from the preview if the quote will be in abluish box.
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If nothing else, I hope this will remind people to turn OFF their gadgets fully when attending a public performance. Working with technology, I will say the various manufacturers don't often make it easy to totally silence the things unless they are fully powered down.
Cheers,
Herb
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I understand that there is technology that would allow a concert hall's management to block all cell phone signals, but that for whatever (legal?) reasons it is not employed.
And in the case of the NYPO Mahler 9 it wouldn't have worked anyway since the ringing wasn't from a phone call but from an alarm in the phone.
db
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I'm still hoping not to be stoned on the spot. Since it was the 60s, perhaps it's too far in the past :-)
Ivor
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Some might enjoy this and note the musician's corollary to Murphy's Law.
http://euge.ca/2012/01/13/interruption/
Ivor
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On the other hand, a lovely way to deal with a phone interruption
http://gigaom.com/mobile/nokia-ringtone-during-violin-solo-yields-classical-improv/
Ivor