Author Topic: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)  (Read 7115 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Offline Karafan

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2009, 09:46:53 PM »
Just enjoyed this DVD this morning. 

Wonderfully powerful interpretation, with Luisi bringing a sense of restraint where it is especially needed but never holding back one scintilla in unleashing the Staatskapelle's enourmous power in the climaxes.  Watched it with a friend who is by no means a Mahlerian and she was blown away by the piece and the interpretation. 

Couldn't help thuinking, too, how Mahler-like Luisi himself is beginning to look.....

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 11:38:13 PM »
Thanks for the report. I'm wanting to hear more Mahler from the Staatskapelle Dresden. Hopefully, Luisi will record more with them.

Barry

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 05:43:54 PM »
Yep. I got this yesterday, and the Mahler is fabulous. I didn't bother to look at the Beethoven concerto. But for me, this was my best encounter with the Mahler first in a long, long time. Even though I didn't agree with every interpretive decision that Fabio Luisi made, he knew exactly what he wanted, and exactly how to express what he wanted to the Dresdeners via his hands, eyes, and face. The guy is amazing.

As such, this is my third encounter with Luisi. The first two were the Bruckner 9th and Richard Strauss' "Alpine" symphony; both on Sony, and both of those are excellent. But then again, the Staatskapelle has had a long history with both Bruckner and Strauss. But I think this orchestra was also born to play the Mahler 1st. In fact, they've already made two very good commercial recordings of M1: one with Otmar Suitner in 1962 (sans expo repeat), and one with Hiroshi Wakasugi in 1986 (I own that one). Let's cover some specifics.

You see, Mahler 1 is basically two symphonies in one. First, there's the obvious stuff: the whooping horns and tricky timpani rhythms at the end of the first movement; the sherzo at full sail; the blustering brass and percussion at both ends of the finale. But then there's plenty of music that's a total opposite to all that: the woodwind fanfare figures near the start of the first movement (which get recapitulated in the finale); the "cozy to the point of sounding lazy" - yet totally playful - middle section of the scherzo; the beautiful "Lindenbaum" melody for soft strings and harps in the third movement; the gentle moments of refrain and reflection in the finale. These moments provide the greatest possible contrast to the music that one normally associates with Mahler: tons of brass and percussion. In this performance, the Staatskapelle cover both Mahlers thoroughly, and terrifically at that. Their strings, woodwinds, brass (not overbearing), and percussion - all four of these departments are excellent throughout the performance. Luisi focuses on these contrasts, and thus drives the point of this schism within the symphony. This is the youthful and impetuous Mahler, but fully capable of self reflection when called for. There are a pair of slightly controversial decisions on Luisi's part, and I may as well cover those now.

At the start of the slow movement, Luisi has the double bass solo - or what used to be considered a solo - played "soli" (the entire bass section). This is becoming more common now, as some evidence has surfaced for its justification. For me, this is a total non-issue, as I've never been a big fan of the "creeky" sounding solo bass anyway. It doesn't make that passage sound louder, just "smoother". Some may wince at that idea, but I find it less distracting. And the other choice I'm singling out will probably be more bothersome to some folks: in the slow movement, Luisi conducts the East European village band passages (they're brief), far faster than usual. Thus, once again, making a big contrast to the slow and soft music that surrounds it, and making those passages sound even more Klezmer-like than usual. It's different, and I wouldn't want to hear it done that way every time. But for a change, it was quite interesting, and worked quite well. By the way, in the final few bars of the finale, the timpani and bass drum rolls sound nice and fat - just as they should (and often times don't).

I'm beginning to ramble, so the bottom line is this: this is a terrific one-off of the Mahler first, captured on tour in the new concert hall in Munich (am Gasteig). As for the Beethoven first piano concerto, I'll get around to that some other day. I'm sure it's fine too. The sound and picture are both excellent on this DVD, with good camera work decisions in the Mahler (very important).  
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 07:00:26 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline akiralx

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 12:42:12 PM »
As such, this is my third encounter with Luisi. The first two were the Bruckner 9th and Richard Strauss' "Alpine" symphony; both on Sony, and both of those are excellent. But then again, the Staatskapelle has had a long history with both Bruckner and Strauss. But I think this orchestra was also born to play the Mahler 1st. In fact, they've already made two very good commercial recordings of M1: one with Otmar Suitner in 1962 (sans expo repeat), and one with Hiroshi Wakasugi in 1986 (I own that one). Let's cover some specifics.

At the start of the slow movement, Luisi has the double bass solo - or what used to be considered a solo - played "soli" (the entire bass section). This is becoming more common now, as some evidence has surfaced for its justification. For me, this is a total non-issue, as I've never been a big fan of the "creeky" sounding solo bass anyway. It doesn't make that passage sound louder, just "smoother". Some may wince at that idea, but I find it less distracting.  

Wakasugi in M1 - really?  I must look out for that as I really like him, he also did the Eroica with the SD, though I don't have it.  I do like his Bruckner 2 (especially, one of my favourite Bruckner recordings) and 9 with the Saarbrucken RSO on Arte Nova.

Some UK critics have been absolutely enraged by this new idea of having the entire bass section play the introduction - I probably prefer the solo but I'm not too bothered.

Offline John Kim

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 10:20:27 PM »
It intrigues me...as Luisi already recorded M2 and M6. I they both got pretty good reviews on hmv.co.jp.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 12:14:38 AM »
I'm curious about those two also. But my guess is that they're probably not quite so well played or recorded. Scott wasn't crazy about their "DLvdE", by the way.

Barry

Offline akiralx

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 11:07:24 AM »
It intrigues me...as Luisi already recorded M2 and M6. I they both got pretty good reviews on hmv.co.jp.

John,

I have the M2 SACD and reviewed it here:

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4026

I quite liked it as an alternative view.

Offline John Kim

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 08:43:49 PM »
It intrigues me...as Luisi already recorded M2 and M6. I they both got pretty good reviews on hmv.co.jp.

John,

I have the M2 SACD and reviewed it here:

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4026

I quite liked it as an alternative view.
Thanks.

I heard a sound clip from Luisi's M6th recording and it sounded really good.

John,

Offline Jot N. Tittle

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 05:53:13 PM »
Thanks, Barry, for that excellent review.

I saw the DVD last night--also letting the concerto go by unseen--and was quite taken by the performance, including Luisi's direction. I think he dances to Mahler better than Lenny did.  At the extended finale, he virtually turns himself inside-out.

Just wish the camera had shown more of the percussion work; it seemed visually and aurally out of sync to watch violins while the tympani are storming away. The great cymbal crashes, however, were shown with fine timing, as was the drum-mounted one, and we DID get to see the tam-tam at work, especially welcome in passages where it could easily be missed aurally. As for the double bass soli, I don't know that I can tell the difference. But didn't Mahler intentionally try to make the bass sound ugly at that point?--seldom played that way now that Mahler is not there to enforce it! (I think Barbirolli forced the NYPO player do it--as heard in the NYPO Mahler Broadcasts recording.)

It is interesting that de La Grange insists that Mahler never heard Klezmer music; therefore, it could not have been a Klezmer band that he was trying to represent. The simple fact is that de La Grange could not find any evidence that Mahler had heard such music and from the absence of evidence draws his conclusion. Under such circumstances, I suggest that "We don't know" is the only justifiable conclusion. Nevertheless, Luisi succeeds in maintaining the sound of rather tipsy players, especially at the opening of the passage.

Given the energy and momentum generally displayed by the orchestra and direction, it seemed somewhat out of character to allow a break between the end of the third movement and the beginning of the fourth. Shouldn't that triple-step crash occur immediately after the tympani fades away?

     . & '

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 07:13:26 AM »
I'm not sure what the evidence is, but I believe that there may be a score or two where Mahler crossed out "solo" and penciled in "soli" - something like that. It'll  be just like the movement order and hammer-stroke controversies from the sixth symphony: they'll all be debated on and on forever. For Mahler, these works were always a work-in-progress, and he often times changed things right on the spot. I just don't see this as being a huge issue, either way.

As for the klezmer music business, I fully agree with what you're implying here. How could Mahler have simply stumbled upon "klezmer" music if he had never heard any previously? That just doesn't make sense to me either. Mahler may have grown up in a German speaking shtetl, but it was a shtetl none-the-less. Certainly Ken Russell had no problems connecting the dots.

The transition between the third and fourth movement is a typical Mahlerian enigma. After the timpani are finished, there are two more measures. Both of those measures simply contain a pizzicato "D" in the double bases, played pianissimo, doubled by the bass drum (also marked pianissimo). Mahler does write the words, "Folgt sogleich No. 4", but then he places a hold mark on the double bar line at the very end of the movement. That implies that one is supposed to hold the rest a bit longer at the end of the third movement (fourth, if you're reinstating "Blumine"). I don't remember Luisi doing anything that struck me as being unusual at that point; and I say that as someone who has played the piece numerous times.

Anyway, I'm glad that you enjoyed the show also.

Offline Jot N. Tittle

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 06:24:38 PM »
As for the klezmer music business, I fully agree with what you're implying here. How could Mahler have simply stumbled upon "klezmer" music if he had never heard any previously? That just doesn't make sense to me either. Mahler may have grown up in a German speaking shtetl, but it was a shtetl none-the-less. Certainly Ken Russell had no problems connecting the dots.

Yes, most of us can probably connect dots that we can infer being there--which is all that Ken Russell did, in this case as well as elsewhere in the movie, but usually with great artistic license. Would it have been necessary for Mahler to have heard actual Klezmer music? Wouldn't most amateur street bands, got up more or less spontaneously, have sounded pretty much as represented? Or perhaps Gypsy music? But my point was that H-LdLG was taking quite a leap of faith in his assertion.

Now a shtetl is something else, if I understand the word. I don't believe that the Mahlers were isolated in a Jewish town or even neighborhood, as part of a distinct Jewish community, as I think the word shtetl is used.

Oh, well.

     . & '

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 06:44:36 PM »
Well, maybe I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that Mahler's hometown was predominantly Jewish. Regardless, there were a few German speaking Jewish enclaves within the Czech region. That was something that was "granted" or ordained by the Austro-Hungarian government (Hapsburgs). And as for local music being "Klezmer" or not, aren't we basically bantering semantics here?

Certainly, nobody came out and said, "OK, we're going to play some Klezmer music for your enjoyment this afternoon". The point being, somewhere along the way, somebody must have played a harmonic-minor scale, which is the characteristic tonality for East European "Jewish" music. Let's ignore the tempo business. Therefore, what I'm asking in essence is this: did Mahler just happen upon the harmonic minor scale on his own (with clarinet prominently featured)? I rather doubt that. If so, wouldn't that be one heck of a coincidence? If nobody was playing the character harmonic-minor scales around that time, that basically makes Mahler the father of modern Klezmer music. I highly doubt that that's the case.

And while this is just an opinion, if people didn't occasionally "connect the dots", then anthropology and deep space science would get absolutely no place, regardless of artistic license. Granted, everything has to be followed up by proof.

Barry
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 06:50:49 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline Jot N. Tittle

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 09:11:11 PM »
"Well, maybe I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that Mahler's hometown was predominantly Jewish."[/size]

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia.com, "many Jewish families of Bohemia and Moravia settled in the western part of the town, in the "Judengasse," which still retains that name...." The Wikipedia article on Jihlava refers to the German and Catholic populations. And we recall that Mahler sang in the St. Jacob choir and attended the German "gymnasium" behind the church of St. Ignaz. And, it was apparently a German-speaking city.

Certainly, nobody came out and said, "OK, we're going to play some Klezmer music for your enjoyment this afternoon". The point being, somewhere along the way, somebody must have played a harmonic-minor scale, which is the characteristic tonality for East European "Jewish" music. Let's ignore the tempo business. Therefore, what I'm asking in essence is this: did Mahler just happen upon the harmonic minor scale on his own (with clarinet prominently featured)? I rather doubt that. If so, wouldn't that be one heck of a coincidence? If nobody was playing the character harmonic-minor scales around that time, that basically makes Mahler the father of modern Klezmer music. I highly doubt that that's the case.

You're spot on, Barry.

And while this is just an opinion, if people didn't occasionally "connect the dots", then anthropology and deep space science would get absolutely no place, regardless of artistic license. Granted, everything has to be followed up by proof.

Yeah, there are dots and there are dots. Ken Russell makes some interesting connections, some outright mistaken. Proof is indeed the heart of the matter.

This has been interesting, Barry. Thanks for responding.

     . & '

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: F. Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden M1 on dvd (Medici Arts)
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 05:06:42 PM »
Thanks. But don't get me wrong. I'm not at all suggesting that Jilhava was a setting right of "Fiddler On The Roof". Obviously, the Jewish population in these towns were either middle class, or middle class want-a-be's. They wanted to assimilate and be good Czechs and Germans. But it wasn't easy, as Mahler himself so succinctly pointed out: "I am thrice homeless: a Czech (Bohme) among Austrians; an Austrian among Germans, and a Jew among all peoples of the world - never wanted; never welcomed". I'm sure that was a typical Mahlerian exaggeration, saved for when he was feeling tired, moody, grumpy, or frustrated. But there had to be a grain of truth to it also. And musically, he must have heard something that sounded a tad like "Fiddler On The Roof" somewhere; someplace.

 

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