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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Phaedrus on May 17, 2009, 05:55:50 PM
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Hi,
I saw this CD in the store yesterday, but didn't have the time to give it a listen. All I read on the Internet is that Nagano's approach seems almost chamber music like.
Has anybody heard it yet?
I like his M8 with Berlin very very much and would appreciate your views on this one very much.
Thanks to you all from the Netherlands.
Best regards,
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I heard Nagano's M3, M6, M8, and DLVDE and I very much liked all of them.
John,
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This is exciting news! Who is the baritone soloist? (Assuming Nagano's using a baritone, that is.) I'm hoping it's Christian Gerhaher, who performed it with Nagano in Montreal last year to great reviews. (He also performed it with Harding last year, too, also to great reviews.) He's one of my very favorite Lieder singers (his Schubert discs are terrific) and he's done a good version of the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen on Arte Nova (w/chamber orch).
Russell
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Hi,
Soloists are Klaus Florian Vogt and Christian Gerhaher :)
Best regards from the Netherlands,
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Great--thanks!
Found this review of a DLVDE concert these same forces gave in Paris just last month:
http://intermezzo.typepad.com/intermezzo/2009/04/orchestre-symphonique-de-montréal.html
Russell
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I see this disc is already out in Japan (released May 5). HMV Japan lists it as 'in stock':
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3572879
MDT still has it for pre-order (predicted release date: June 1):
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//88697508212.htm
I wouldn't count on Sony/BMG to release this in the US; Gerhaher's last disc (all Schumann Lieder) issued in Europe over a year ago was never released here, and there are a number of other Sony titles that I know of (Jansons/Bavarian Radio Symphony recordings) that have never been released here, either. Still hoping, though, that they see Nagano and Mahler having some 'pull' here.
Russell
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I'm sure this is very good, but I'm just not crazy about yet another tenor/baritone version.
And maybe it's just me, but I'm not that thrilled with Nagano's Mahler 8. Three things: I'm not crazy about the more "French" sounding organ; the fact that the two loud, Wagnerian-sounding orchestral passages near the start of Part II have absolutely no Wagnerian fire to them at all (before the baritone solo); the fact that tenor Robert Gambill actually switches into falsetto for some of his high notes (I really think he sounds terrible). Beyond that, I like much of it.
I would like to see Sony release the Fabio Luisi/Staatskapelle Dresden Bruckner 9 and "Alpine Symphony" here.
Barry
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I attended the performanced that these forces gave in Madrid a month ago; I found it quite impressionistic, and this is a quality I have never associated to Mahler's music, but I must say that I enjoyed the concert a lot.
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MDT still has it for pre-order (predicted release date: June 1):
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//88697508212.htm
Russell
I ordered it from there yesterday. They also have a pre-order for a live 1983 PROMS Tennstedt M6 on the BBC label, which I also ordered.
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"I found it quite impressionistic, and this is a quality I have never associated to Mahler's music"
Interesting. I attended a semi-staged version of Stravinsky's "Oedipus Rex" at the Disney Symphony Hall, and it struck me as being rather cubistic in nature. It made me think of Picasso. Maybe it was the big, primitive looking masks on stage.
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Timings:
I 8:29
II 9:38
III 3:11
IV 6:48
v 4:10
VI 29:07
Recorded live 01/13+14(live)+15(studio)/2009 + overdub Klaus Florian Vogt 02/15/2009
Recording venue: Salle Wilfried Pelletier, Place des Arts, Montréal (January) and BavariaMusikstudio, München (February)
Just listened briefly to I; the woodwinds are particularly well recorded.
More news will follow.
Best regard from the Netherlands,
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"recording venue: Salle Wilfried Pelletier, Place des Arts, Montréal (January) and BavariaMusikstudio, München (February)"
Huhhhh? Two different locales? The Place des Arts is known for having very poor acoustics for symphony concerts. Perhaps for "Das Lied" that's not such a problem.
Barry
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Recorded live 01/13+14(live)+15(studio)/2009 + overdub Klaus Florian Vogt 02/15/2009
Recording venue: Salle Wilfried Pelletier, Place des Arts, Montréal (January) and BavariaMusikstudio, München (February)
Looks like the tenor "overdubbed" his part from Munich. Since I'm mainly interested in this recording to hear what Gerhaher does with his part, that's OK. ;D
Russell
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Hi everybody,
The info about the recording venues have been copied out of the booklet. I also assume that Muenich was used as an overdub location.
Best regards,
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You can hear some very brief excerpts here.
http://www.sonybmgclassical.de/artists2.php?iA=7&artist=325019&product=88697508212
Sorry, but I'm just not that impressed. The tenor sounds kind of wimpy to me - no wonder they did overdubs in Munich. The baritone sounds a bit like Fischer-Dieskau; but without the "barking", I suppose. I'd like a bit more tam-tam at the beginning of the "der Abshied" too (6th movement). Can't really judge from brief excerpts though.
Barry
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I just ordered a copy of this disc from MDT. Hopefully I'll get it in a week or so. (It will be released on Monday, June 1, and MDT is usually very good about sending stuff quickly.) In the meantime, someone has already posted a pretty longwinded (but positive) review on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Das-Lied-Erde-Gustav-Mahler/dp/B001XTLB14/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243579122&sr=1-1
I know the guy who wrote this review (and you might know him as well, Barry), and I think he's pretty trustworthy. (Though I know our tastes differ somewhat with singers.)
Russell
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Yes, I know Dan. He's a great guy, but geeeeeeez . . . . nothing about this "long winded" review would make me want to buy this.
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Listened to this yesterday, and I have to say that it's a non-contender. Nagano and his orchestra are pretty unremarkable here, very much middle-of-the-road (if not downright dull) with no revelations or insights, but at least he doesn't get in the way of the singers (nor does he seem to help them, either). Gerhaher, as always, has exemplary diction without ever sounding pedantic (unlike what I often find with Fischer-Dieskau). His tendency of late to croon and attack soft notes with a straight tone (bringing in the natural vibrato later) bothers me a bit, but otherwise he sounds great, and his 'Der Abschied' is passionately sung. But the deal-breaker here is the tenor, Klaus Florian Vogt, who's just totally inadequate. His overly sweet and lyric approach is completely at odds with the demands of this work, particularly in the first song. To put it bluntly, I've never heard a more prissy rendition of the tenor songs, and that's enough to rule this recording out as a general recommendation, despite the excellence of Gerhaher.
Russell
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Told you ;) I figured these things out just from the little snippets. Sorry it's kind of a let-down.
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Yeah--I know, I know. ;D As a big Gerhaher fan, I had to hear it. It's just too bad Vogt is on the same disc... >:(
Russell
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If you look at the mp3 listing of this on amazon.co.uk, first note that the reviews are for Klemperer's DLvDE (error 1).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Das-Lied-Von-Erde/dp/B0029V5CCO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Then click on Also available in CD format above the track listing - that takes you to MTT's SACD listing (error 2) - where clicking on Buy the mp3 album for £7.99..., which you would assume would take you back to Nagano's, actually takes you to Solti's recording (error 3)!
Amazon UK really are useless!
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I must say, all these reports are rather disappointing because I find Nagano's Mahler very much to my liking. I heard his M3, M6, M7, and DLVDE, and all were excellent. I don't think the live DLVDE I heard had two make singers so that may be one thing. But the M6 & M7 were downright top performances.
John,
P.S. It sounds like you folks are attributing the failure of new DLVDE to the singing, not Nagano's conducting.
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I must say, all these reports are rather disappointing because I find Nagano's Mahler very much to my liking. I heard his M3, M6, M7, and DLVDE, and all were excellent. I don't think the live DLVDE I heard had two make singers so that may be one thing. But the M6 & M7 were downright top performances.
John,
P.S. It sounds like you folks are attributing the failure of new DLVDE to the singing, not Nagano's conducting.
Well, it's mainly the tenor soloist who's not to my liking at all. I do like the baritone soloist very much (and as I've already said, his Schubert and Schumann lieder recordings are wonderful), and that's the main reason why I was interested in this performance. Nagano's conducting isn't bad at all, but I didn't find anything distinctive or inspired about it. Ultimately in this work, though, it's the singers who carry the day.
Russell
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It used to be that "DLvdE" was a work that everybody got right, but now everyone seems to be missing the target with. There's a tendency to want to over-refine a work that already has a lot of refinement, and plenty of "erudite" qualities to it . Listen to earlier recordings of the work (Walter; Klemperer; Reiner; Jochum, etc.): nobody tried to "pretti-fy" it, or make it excessively zen like. Just play the d__n thing as it's written. I also feel that these tenor/baritone renditions just don't work in the long run. Anyway, that's my zwei groschen on the topic.
Worst of all are these chamber reductions of the piece. Why? . . . it's already chamber-like.
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Listened to this yesterday, and I have to say that it's a non-contender. Nagano and his orchestra are pretty unremarkable here, very much middle-of-the-road (if not downright dull) with no revelations or insights, but at least he doesn't get in the way of the singers (nor does he seem to help them, either). Gerhaher, as always, has exemplary diction without ever sounding pedantic (unlike what I often find with Fischer-Dieskau). His tendency of late to croon and attack soft notes with a straight tone (bringing in the natural vibrato later) bothers me a bit, but otherwise he sounds great, and his 'Der Abschied' is passionately sung. But the deal-breaker here is the tenor, Klaus Florian Vogt, who's just totally inadequate. His overly sweet and lyric approach is completely at odds with the demands of this work, particularly in the first song. To put it bluntly, I've never heard a more prissy rendition of the tenor songs, and that's enough to rule this recording out as a general recommendation, despite the excellence of Gerhaher.
Russell
I haven't quite made it through a second listening session with this one. It is quite shocking to hear this type of tenor voice in DLvdE. He actually has a nice voice, but it is totally at odds with what I want to hear in this music. He fares a bit better in the middle song -- Of Youth -- which is a more difficult song for a more masculine voice. The Drunkard is Spring is rather rushed sounding to begin with, and the tenor's voice does not help. On the baritone songs, Der Abschied has excellent tam-tams, but seemed rather under-played and/or light sounding in the funeral march. I'll give this one another spin some time this week -- at least for the baritone songs. The sound quality is excellent.
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Pardon me for resurrecting an old thread, but I just bought this recording last week, and my impressions are more favorable.
Yes, the tenor is arguably too lightweight for the part, but on the other hand, it’s good to hear such accurate singing, with pitches dead on. Although consumption of fermented beverages figures prominently in the tenor songs, I prefer a tenor who does not already sound sloshed from the opening notes. Gerhaher’s interpretation is similar, expressive but restrained.
Nagano’s conducting is comparably low key yet faithful to the spirit of the music. I certainly would not call it undercharacterized. “Der Abschied” passes through a landscape that is vividly portrayed; note the chill that initiates the funeral march section, along with an atmospheric tamtam. The recording is excellent, revealing much detail that is often obscured in more extroverted performances.
Taken as a whole, this performance is more art song than big symphony. To my ears, it is internally consistent and fully realized. That is a fine achievement considering its provenance, as a mix of live and studio sessions, with the tenor dubbed in.
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Well good - glad to hear that. I like Gerharer too, so I'll try to catch up to this recording some time. Thanks for chiming in.