Author Topic: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE  (Read 27544 times)

Offline Russell

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2009, 06:49:27 AM »
I just ordered a copy of this disc from MDT.  Hopefully I'll get it in a week or so.  (It will be released on Monday, June 1, and MDT is usually very good about sending stuff quickly.)  In the meantime, someone has already posted a pretty longwinded (but positive) review on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Das-Lied-Erde-Gustav-Mahler/dp/B001XTLB14/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243579122&sr=1-1

I know the guy who wrote this review (and you might know him as well, Barry), and I think he's pretty trustworthy.  (Though I know our tastes differ somewhat with singers.)

Russell

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 06:24:12 PM »
Yes, I know Dan. He's a great guy, but geeeeeeez   .    .     .    .   nothing about this "long winded" review would make me want to buy this.

Offline Russell

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 07:23:46 PM »
Listened to this yesterday, and I have to say that it's a non-contender. Nagano and his orchestra are pretty unremarkable here, very much middle-of-the-road (if not downright dull) with no revelations or insights, but at least he doesn't get in the way of the singers (nor does he seem to help them, either). Gerhaher, as always, has exemplary diction without ever sounding pedantic (unlike what I often find with Fischer-Dieskau). His tendency of late to croon and attack soft notes with a straight tone (bringing in the natural vibrato later) bothers me a bit, but otherwise he sounds great, and his 'Der Abschied' is passionately sung. But the deal-breaker here is the tenor, Klaus Florian Vogt, who's just totally inadequate. His overly sweet and lyric approach is completely at odds with the demands of this work, particularly in the first song. To put it bluntly, I've never heard a more prissy rendition of the tenor songs, and that's enough to rule this recording out as a general recommendation, despite the excellence of Gerhaher.

Russell

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2009, 09:30:32 PM »
Told you  ;)  I figured these things out just from the little snippets. Sorry it's kind of a let-down.


Offline Russell

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 11:46:06 PM »
Yeah--I know, I know. ;D As a big Gerhaher fan, I had to hear it. It's just too bad Vogt is on the same disc...  >:(

Russell

Offline akiralx

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2009, 12:50:14 PM »
If you look at the mp3 listing of this on amazon.co.uk, first note that the reviews are for Klemperer's DLvDE (error 1). 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Das-Lied-Von-Erde/dp/B0029V5CCO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Then click on Also available in CD format above the track listing  - that takes you to MTT's SACD listing (error 2) - where clicking on Buy the mp3 album for £7.99..., which you would assume would take you back to Nagano's, actually takes you to Solti's recording (error 3)!

Amazon UK really are useless!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 12:52:46 PM by akiralx »

Offline John Kim

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2009, 03:36:47 PM »
I must say, all these reports are rather disappointing because I find Nagano's Mahler very much to my liking. I heard his M3, M6, M7, and DLVDE, and all were excellent. I don't think the live DLVDE I heard had two make singers so that may be one thing. But the M6 & M7 were downright top performances.

John,

P.S. It sounds like you folks are attributing the failure of new DLVDE to the singing, not Nagano's conducting.

Offline Russell

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2009, 05:27:02 PM »
I must say, all these reports are rather disappointing because I find Nagano's Mahler very much to my liking. I heard his M3, M6, M7, and DLVDE, and all were excellent. I don't think the live DLVDE I heard had two make singers so that may be one thing. But the M6 & M7 were downright top performances.

John,

P.S. It sounds like you folks are attributing the failure of new DLVDE to the singing, not Nagano's conducting.

Well, it's mainly the tenor soloist who's not to my liking at all. I do like the baritone soloist very much (and as I've already said, his Schubert and Schumann lieder recordings are wonderful), and that's the main reason why I was interested in this performance. Nagano's conducting isn't bad at all, but I didn't find anything distinctive or inspired about it.  Ultimately in this work, though, it's the singers who carry the day.

Russell

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2009, 07:50:17 PM »
It used to be that "DLvdE" was a work that everybody got right, but now everyone seems to be missing the target with. There's a tendency to want to over-refine a work that already has a lot of refinement, and plenty of "erudite" qualities to it . Listen to earlier recordings of the work (Walter; Klemperer; Reiner; Jochum, etc.): nobody tried to "pretti-fy" it, or make it excessively zen like. Just play the d__n thing as it's written. I also feel that these tenor/baritone renditions just don't work in the long run. Anyway, that's my zwei groschen on the topic.

Worst of all are these chamber reductions of the piece. Why?    .    .     .   it's already chamber-like.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 01:15:21 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline sperlsco

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2009, 10:44:42 PM »
Listened to this yesterday, and I have to say that it's a non-contender. Nagano and his orchestra are pretty unremarkable here, very much middle-of-the-road (if not downright dull) with no revelations or insights, but at least he doesn't get in the way of the singers (nor does he seem to help them, either). Gerhaher, as always, has exemplary diction without ever sounding pedantic (unlike what I often find with Fischer-Dieskau). His tendency of late to croon and attack soft notes with a straight tone (bringing in the natural vibrato later) bothers me a bit, but otherwise he sounds great, and his 'Der Abschied' is passionately sung. But the deal-breaker here is the tenor, Klaus Florian Vogt, who's just totally inadequate. His overly sweet and lyric approach is completely at odds with the demands of this work, particularly in the first song. To put it bluntly, I've never heard a more prissy rendition of the tenor songs, and that's enough to rule this recording out as a general recommendation, despite the excellence of Gerhaher.

Russell

I haven't quite made it through a second listening session with this one.  It is quite shocking to hear this type of tenor voice in DLvdE.  He actually has a nice voice, but it is totally at odds with what I want to hear in this music.  He fares a bit better in the middle song -- Of Youth -- which is a more difficult song for a more masculine voice.  The Drunkard is Spring is rather rushed sounding to begin with, and the tenor's voice does not help.  On the baritone songs, Der Abschied has excellent tam-tams, but seemed rather under-played and/or light sounding in the funeral march.  I'll give this one another spin some time this week -- at least for the baritone songs.  The sound quality is excellent. 
Scott

Offline Roland Flessner

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2017, 04:46:31 PM »
Pardon me for resurrecting an old thread, but I just bought this recording last week, and my impressions are more favorable.

Yes, the tenor is arguably too lightweight for the part, but on the other hand, it’s good to hear such accurate singing, with pitches dead on. Although consumption of fermented beverages figures prominently in the tenor songs, I prefer a tenor who does not already sound sloshed from the opening notes. Gerhaher’s interpretation is similar, expressive but restrained.

Nagano’s conducting is comparably low key yet faithful to the spirit of the music. I certainly would not call it undercharacterized. “Der Abschied” passes through a landscape that is vividly portrayed; note the chill that initiates the funeral march section, along with an atmospheric tamtam. The recording is excellent, revealing much detail that is often obscured in more extroverted performances.

Taken as a whole, this performance is more art song than big symphony. To my ears, it is internally consistent and fully realized. That is a fine achievement considering its provenance, as a mix of live and studio sessions, with the tenor dubbed in.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Nagano/Montreal/DLvdE
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2017, 05:13:27 AM »
Well good - glad to hear that. I like Gerharer too, so I'll try to catch up to this recording some time. Thanks for chiming in.

 

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