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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: barry guerrero on February 09, 2012, 07:18:00 AM
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http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/4951421
Oh baby, these timings look near ideal for me. Maybe a tad longer in the last movement might be nice. Anyway, now I have to add yet another M3 to my collection (I really like the Stenz series).
Barry
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My copy arrived today, and great audio quality on 2-channel SACD.
bob berkman
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Amazon U.S. has sound samples for the MP3 release on March 6th; no date for the CD yet.
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympnie-Nr-3/dp/B0078VAVNU/
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My copy arrived today, and great audio quality on 2-channel SACD.
bob berkman
Bob,
So, how did you like Stenz M3rd so far? ???
I am most curious about the recording....having just ordered Stenz's M2nd & M5th (both on Oehms label).
Regards,
John,
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Amazon now lists March 27 for disk release date.
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Great sound. My copy came from Grooves (Switzerland).
bob berkman
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Thanks, Bob.
I ordered Stenz M2nd and M5th last night.
Regards,
John,
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I've heard the Stenz M3, and I would give it about 8.5 stars out of 10. The scherzo and finale are terrific. Stenz really 'went' for the scherzo, as he brought out all of the humor and irony behind the strange woodwind noises, as well as from Mahler's rhythms. The offstage trumpet work is really good, if also a bit close in perspective (which I prefer to being too distant). The climax of the long brass chorale in the finale - a real 'touchstone' for me - is done superbly well, with Stenz really drawing out the trombones at the final cymbal crash.
By the way, the coda to the scherzo is also done really well, with its alternating double cymbal crashes and double tam-tam strokes (the tam-tam answering the cymbals, basically).
There are really only two things that would keep me from giving this a full 10. First, I'm a tad underwhelmed by Stenz's first movement. He takes the two long 'happy marches' (in major) a bit quicker than I would have expected from him. The trombone solo isn't terribly distinguished, and I was a tad underwhelmed by most of the 'southern storm' fantasy section that caps the development section. That said, Stenz does an outstanding job of delineating the horn parts from the trumpet ones in the final bars of the coda (usually the horns just get covered over).
The other shortcoming, for me, is that the mezzo just isn't all that great. She isn't 'bad', mind you, but neither is she all that great in comparison to the competition. Some of the 'hinaufziehen' effects from the oboe and cor anglais (English horn) sounded a tad labored to me as well. Maybe they just needed to sound a bit farther back.
All in all, I guess I'm just a tad underwhelmed because I feel so spoiled with the excellent Honeck/PSO M3, as well as a 'burn job' that I own that was taken from a hi-rez download of the Alan Gilbert/NYPO M3. Both of those are truly hard to beat.
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Barry,
Thanks for your detailed report.
First, I'm a tad underwhelmed by Stenz's first movement. ---> Maybe Stenz scaled the 1st movt. down so that it gets balanced with the rest of the symphony?
Speaking of the tempo of the two marches in I., I like them to be played fast than slow. After all, they are supposed to sound like march, right?
This is why I have reservations about Abbado/BPO, Jansons/RCO, etc all of which have somewhat slow tempos in these sections.
I heard that the sound on this SACD is spectacular. What was your impression on the sound?
Regards,
John,
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After listening to M3 Bernstein/DG last night, it is hard for me to imagine anything better. And although not SACD, the SQ is superb.
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I have both the regular Bernstein M3/DG issue and the Japanese mastering or issue, and it does have great sonic impact. I remember a review of the live performance in the NY Times citing a transfixed and even stunned audience.
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Yes, it strikes me that Stenz might think of the first movement as being something of a prelude to the rest of the symphony's narrative - that thought did cross my mind.
I prefer the 'happy' marches to be just a tad on the slower side because, A). there's so much inner detail - just like Bruckner in his quicker movements and, B). I feel that those two marches have more power and impact if they're permitted to build gradually at their own pace - without being pushed by the conductor (or by the double bass players, or the trumpets). It's a matter of preference since Mahler didn't use metronome markings.
As good as the Bernstein/NYPO/DG M3 recording is, I like the Alan Gilbert performance even better. It has much of the same visceral impact and power of the Bernstein, but without being nearly so expansive with the tempi.
One further point: most 'military' marches are frequently performed too swiftly.
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Barry, is the Gilbert/NYPO M3 recording available commercially? I almost bought his M9, but there were some atrocious reviews at Amazon.
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...is the Gilbert/NYPO M3 recording available commercially?
I got my copy of the Gilbert/NYPO M3 from HDTracks, where it's available in both 16/44.1 and 24/96 downloads.
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=844185042383
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD844185042383
James
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"I almost bought his M9, but there were some atrocious reviews at Amazon"
I don't know if you read my Amazon review or not, but I think it's the best single disc Mahler 9 out there. And since "the best" can not be objectively measured, then that means that it's my favorite. I don't think it's even close, frankly.
Not to labor the point, but here's a link to Dave Hurwitz's 10/10 review. I'm very much in his camp on this one.
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12455
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I listened to the Stenz M3rd.
Unlike his M4th, this is a rather straightforward performance.
I like 2nd, 3rd, and Finale movts. very much, but like Barry did I have mild reservations about the 1st and 4th movts.
In the opening movt. Stenz's interpretation is unaffected and did not hold much of my breath.
Don't get me wrong, this is a very fine reading. It's just that we're spoiled with too many good ones including Lenny, Levine, Ozawa and the latest Honeck.
Partly, this is due to the engineering which puts the orchestra in steely, hard sounding acoustics without much warmth and ambiance.
(But there is plenty of dynamic range!)
But the 2nd movt is terrific as are the Scherzo and the Finale. Not only the playing is of the highest order, here Stenz's focus on articulating many rhythmic and dynamic contrasts pays off very nicely.
I got Stenz's M5th too so it's next in my review.
John,
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As good as the Bernstein/NYPO/DG M3 recording is, I like the Alan Gilbert performance even better. It has much of the same visceral impact and power of the Bernstein, but without being nearly so expansive with the tempi.
Gosh, I am not nearly as big on the Gilbert M3. I think i fell in love with the sound of the NYPO brass as found on Maazel's digital/download cycle with them -- which is not to be confused with loving Maazel's choice of tempi. In turn, I was completely underwhelmed by the power of the same NYPO in Gilbert's M3.
If you want impact and power without the expansive tempi, try the Bernstein/Sony NYPO M3 or the Inbal/Frankfurt one.
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Maybe it's a difference in dowloads (?). All I can tell you is that the CD's that I have - taken from the best quality download from the NYPO's website - has plenty of impact and power for my taste. After all, we're talking about the same brass and percussion players - they're going to play just as loud for Alan Gilbert as they are for Bernstein or anybody else. Then again, I'm well aware that Maazel is known for liking his Mahler REALLY loud (and slow).
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Actually the brass section of the Phil is quite different from Bernstein to Gilbert and Maazel. Only one trumpet player remains, Phil Smith. One trombonist, Joe Alessi, and on tuba we have Alan Baer instead of Warren Deck. Phil Meyer is still lead horn, though he has switched instruments which has greatly changed the sound of the section; for the better I might add. Maazel and Gilbert's section are pretty much the same. I believe the only change in the brass section with Gilbert has been a new 2nd trombone.
I think the brass playing in the Gilbert 3 to be basically as good as it gets; it really wins for me in the scherzo. Matt Muckey, the associate principle trumpet, gives us what I think is best playing on record in this movement as takes over for Phil Smith who's playing the posthorn. As an ex-orchestral trumpet wanna be, this stuff is important! I would love to hear the Maazel recording though; the brass work in his 2nd with NY is simply amazing.
I can only imagine that the playing on both recordings is excellent. They are possibly the best brass section on the planet.
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"Phil Meyer is still lead horn, though he has switched instruments which has greatly changed the sound of the section; for the better I might add."
Phil Meyer brought in a Schmitt 'triple' horn, and some of the other members have since copied him. I read Phil's blog about making the transition, which was pretty interesting to a fellow brass player. I think one or two still play Conn 8H's. The Czech Phil. has switched over (most of the time) to Schmitt 'triples' as well, and they sound fabulous on their recent Mahler recordings. The horn solo that opens the 2nd movement (1st Nachtmusik) on the Inbal recording sounds incredible.
Yes, the NYPO has an amazing brass section, but it's unfortunate that they have to play in Avory Fischer so often.
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I listened to the Stenz M3 last night. I love the sound quality, excellant mastering, great low end. There's some details in this performance that will bring me back for another listen. I like the tone of the solo trombone in the first movement. I also love the quicker speed of the marches in said movement. Tam-tam is wonderful in the third movement, so is the posthorn (flugalhorn perhaps?) solo. I love the quicker finale too. It ties up Stenz's straightforward but beautifully executed M3.
--Todd
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The more I ponder Stenz's M3 the more I like it. The first movement offers something I haven't heard a lot in this work, the faster pace in the marches is real exciting to me. The fast finale really appeals to me too.
--Todd