Author Topic: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)  (Read 5468 times)

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« on: November 01, 2007, 06:15:12 AM »
I'm writing this review based on hearing this recording on the two-channel CD layer. I don't own an SACD player, so I can't comment on its multi-channel aspects.

In spite of the fact that Zinman - like Michael Tilson Thomas - starts the scherzo movement at a very fast clip, then very much takes his time during the offstage trumpet solos (also like MTT), I really like this Mahler 3 recording quite a bit. Unlike MTT, after the first sixty seconds or so of the scherzo, Zinman doesn't lose tempo when the double basses and celli enter with their chugging triplet figures (three notes to a beat). In addition, the Tonhalle Zurich (who?) woodwinds distinguish themselves so well at the start of the scherzo, that it doesn't sound the least bit breathless or hasty. And yes, the posthorn solos are very much on the slow side. Yet, those solos don't sound as though they're lasting forever either; such is the care given to balances and phrasing.

In fact, Zinman employs at least two different offstage locations for the posthorn solos. At the onset, the trumpet sounds very distant indeed. After the flutes have their little solo, the posthorn sounds a bit closer. Then, when we reach the harmonic cadence point - the spot where the harmonies begin turning homeward, and the horns join the trumpet in a sort of dialogue - the offstage trumpet sounds close to being onstage. This may seem like a petty piece of Mahlerian trivia, but it allows for exacting balances and rhythms between the trumpet and horns to actually exist. Trust me, it's very effective!

Other than the scherzo, much of this performance brings Simon Rattle's greatly underrated recording to mind. In fact, they share the same outstanding mezzo soprano: Birgirt Remmert. As should always be the case, the first movement is a wondrous, kaleidoscopic tour-de-force.

After a beautifully pharsed trombone solo (as well as sufficiently muscular), we actually get to hear the fortissimo tam-tam smash that makes the woodwinds sound like birds being shaken out of their tree by some natural cataclysmic event (unlike Haitink/CSO, where you can't hear this particular gong smash at all). Later on, the start of the development section really rocks the house, as the lowbrass do an outstanding job with their ridiculous sounding kuckoo rhythms, while the clarinets blast out their unison folk melodies. This is a real "stand up and take notice" account of this passage - very much in contrast to the relatively staid Haitink. After an even more rousing "southern storm" fantasy passage (Mahler's description) that caps the development section, Zinman judges his transition back to the recapitulation - the reiteration of the symphony's opening horn fanfare - perfectly by making the offstage snare drum solo almost the same tempo as the horn fanfare itself (as opposed to being way too fast, as it is on Haitink/CSO, and numerous others).

For me, the highlight of Zinman's "Resurrction" (Mahler 2) recording was the wonderful sounding set of deep bells, employed at the end of the symphony. In lieu of the usual suspect - a ubiquitous rolling rack of tubular chimes - those deep bells make their reappearance at the start of the "bim-bam" choral movement here (personally, I think that handbells in the lower octave would be the perfect sound). While the sound of deep bells may be a startling effect at first, they make for more sufficient contrast to the glockenspiel and triangle that help to send this joyous movement out on its merry way. Again, Zinman pays great attention to phrasing and balances. Yet, nothing sounds staid or too studied. This treatment pays great dividends in the concluding adagio movement. But unlike Simon Rattle, Zinman doesn't rush the concluding 90 seconds of the symphony, where the two sets of timpani go back forth on the tonic and dominant notes (nor is he too slow and marmoreal, like MTT/SFSO).

Well, I could go on and on with more detail, but I've already chalked up too many words here. In summary, what I can tell you is that Zinman's Mahler 3 pretty much incorporates everything that I've admired in previous outstanding efforts. That list would include Haitink (1966), Horenstein, Bernstein (1960's), Martinon/CSO; Levine/CSO; Abbado/BPO, Boulez/VPO, Ozawa/BSO, Rattle, Chailly - and a few others that I'm just not thinking of at this moment. In plain, old two-channel stereo, I can heartily recommend it.

Offline Jot N. Tittle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Meine Zeit wird noch kommen.
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2007, 07:17:39 PM »
As usual, Barry, you are right on the mark.

My CD arrived yesterday, and I listened—like you in 2-channel sound—with Grado RS80 headphones and great pleasure. I thought the posthorn treatment was quite effective.

Thanks for sharing your review with us.

     . & '

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • You're the best Angie
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2007, 09:52:52 PM »
As usual, Barry, you are right on the mark.

My CD arrived yesterday, and I listened—like you in 2-channel sound—with Grado RS80 headphones and great pleasure. I thought the posthorn treatment was quite effective.

Thanks for sharing your review with us.

     . & '

Those are the same headphones I use...good to know the recording is effective...I look forward to ordering this soon!

--Leo

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • You're the best Angie
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2007, 05:10:49 PM »
Barry, thanks for your accurate reviews! 

Well, I heard this Zinman M3 for the first time the other night on the SACD layer...the sound on the SACD layer sounds alittle distant, but did not take away my enjoyment of the performance.  Remember that I usually listen to headphones and I am deaf in one ear, so my reviews are limited regarding actual sound.

But the performance is awe inspiring...I was suprised to find a darker interpretation during the awakening of Pan section in the first movement...therefore the contrast with the marches were clearly outlined...like the contrast of good vs. evil that Schoenberg thought he heard.  I LOVE the tam tam smashes in the first and third movements...it really makes a difference to hear these details.  And the strings are a highlight...like the old Adler recording, there are many moods and turns of expressiveness...remarkable.

I have to hear it again before I comment more.

--Leo
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:44:19 PM by Leo K »

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 06:36:48 PM »
Given that Scott and others have indicated that these Zinman Mahlers are a bit problematic - sound wise, that is - on the SACD layer side, try playing it on a regular CD player. I think that the balances and perspective are just fine on the regular CD layer. I think that this is going to continue to be a good series, but I knew that he would nail the 3rd. The 4th will be decent, but much will depend on the soloist, obviously. I'm very curious to hear what he does with the 5th.

I'm hoping he gives the 5th the sort of fast, "authentic" treatment that he has given his Beethoven and Schumann - just as long as it has a strong brass chorale at the end, underpinned by decent bass drum rolls and strokes. I'm hoping that it'll be sort of Roger Norrington-like, in other words, but with a bit better sound, and at least some vibrato in the strings too.

Barry
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 06:38:28 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline sperlsco

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 10:06:57 PM »
Given that Scott and others have indicated that these Zinman Mahlers are a bit problematic - sound wise, that is - on the SACD layer side, try playing it on a regular CD player. I think that the balances and perspective are just fine on the regular CD layer.
Barry

To clarify, my complaints regarding sound pertain to the multi-channel tracks.  The sound is better focused on the stereo SACD layer.  I just have not been in a big M3 mood lately, or I would revisit this recording. 
Scott

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • You're the best Angie
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2007, 04:15:42 PM »
On second listening I feel that the SACD stereo layer indeed sounds alittle too distant...I will try the CD layer next.

I had this problem with Zinman's M2 as well, though not as bad.  The CD layer is better on this recording.

I love the performances though.  Especially his M3...Barry is correct...Zinman nails the M3...this is now one of my top M3's.  The middle movements especially have variety of expression and they really flow...no boredom here! 

--Leo
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 04:18:10 PM by Leo K »

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • You're the best Angie
Re: what I wrote at Amazon Re: Zinman M3 (RCA)
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 08:04:25 PM »
Thank God...just heard the first movement on the CD layer, and this recording sounds MUCH better on the CD layer, now I can hear what Barry was talking about.  The climaxes are large, and impressive at that!

Yes!  I'm very excited over this M3.  Zinman builds the first movment carefully, with no sentimentality...it doesn't feel nostalgic, rather the drama is seen objectively from a higher point of view, but by the end there is much fulfillment.  Now on to the rest of the symphony...


--Leo

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk