Author Topic: M8-A-Thon  (Read 6254 times)

Offline Leo K

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M8-A-Thon
« on: November 26, 2007, 09:03:42 PM »
Barry wrote this in the "Little Drummer Boy Thread":

Quote
For me, Mahler was as much a political composer as he was personal. In Mahler's mind, the 8th pointed the way out of the petty squabling, rampid nationalism, and military overkill that was begining to define turn-of-the-century Germany (and along for the ride, Austria). It was a way of looking for "the light" in one's mind,  and redemption in one's soul, without also turning to the same-old tired answers. In short, it was everything that all of his previous works had been building up to. In purely musical terms, it's the fin-de-siecle Beethoven's 9th. Because the 8th was also his most public work, he turned inward and personal with "DLvdE". After the 8th, there could be no further public works of such magnitude. It is perhaps the most dramatic shift in personal aesthetics in all of music. Imagine if Beethoven had composed his "Heliege Dankgesang" (buried in one of the late quartets) immediately after his "Ode To Joy". That's the kind of dramatic shift we're talking about. That would have fit perfectly into Bernstein's proclamation of Mahler's dramatic sensibilities.

This has inspired to listen to my M8 recordings, of which I don't turn to enough.  Of all my recordings I probably have turned to the Inbal the most.  There even a few that I haven't even heard yet.  In any case, yesterday I just opened my Rattle EMI M8, that I had gotten last Christmas.  Wow...this recording was a complete uplifting experience!  Since I hear from Barry the DVD is even better I am eager to hear this version.  Barry's Amazon review hits on  what is great in this recording, such as the glorious voices of the Children's choir among other points.   I particulary enjoy the organ and the various details from the Orch, which have much character.  This is the finest choral singing I have yet heard on an M8, not too thick and pounding, but transparent and soaring.  The ending of Part II makes my spin it is so good. 

As I already mentioned, the Boulez M8 is also very good, with great climaxes, and this CD has great sound.  His Part II is reminiscent of Maazel's reading, in particular the slowness of the orchestral prelude, only with better sound.

In truth, I have never heard a "bad" M8, and I love the variety of interpetations out there.  I tend towards the slow, but I enjoy a faster M8 if done well, such as the Rattle.

Now on to Bertini very soon (from his box set).

--Leo   


Offline techniquest

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 10:58:57 PM »
How lovely to have an M8-a-thon. Something everyone should do atleast once in their lives.
However, there are such things as 'bad' M8 recordings and would direct you to the Emil Tabakov recording with the Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra on Capriccio if you want to be distressed.
Back to the good ones; if you haven't already heard the Naxos recording with the Warsaw combo under Antoni Wit, or the sublime Harmonia Mundi recording with the Berlin combo under Kent Nagano, then you really must go treat yourself. If you can find it, the Symphonica of London / Wyn Morris M8 is also wonderful. I think I might join you and have an M8-a-thon of my own this coming weekend :)

Offline Leo K

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 11:30:42 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts!

Yes, this has been a wonderful M8-A-Thon.  I have recently gone through the Inbal M8 (revisting this one), as well as the Bertini on EMI (totally new recording for me).  The Bertini is blazing, and impeccably paced with great uplifting detail...and the soloists are among the best blends I've heard. 

And also, I went back to Rattle since I now have the DVD version of his commercial recording...oh man, the sound is miles above the CD, and the score is opened in a glorious rush of sound...this is my favorite M8 of all...interesting twists and turns, the tempos well chosen and very elegantly handled by the singers and instruments.  Splendid!  Splendid!  Splendid!

I'm going out of town tomorrow, but when I return the Chailly M8 awaits its turn, as well as the Horenstein and the Newman on Suraphon.

Hopefully I will get the Witt and Nagano next year after the holidays...I can't spend on anything for awhile!

Tell us how your M8-A-Thon goes!

--Leo

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2007, 05:00:41 PM »
It might be good to include the Colin Davis M8 into that mix. The men are terrific, as is the choral contribution. Ben Heppner sounds better here than he does on the Chailly M8, which I do like. While the organ is a bit undersized, the tam-tam smashes at the end of Part II are terrific. It's well worth hearing.

I like the Boulez M8 very much. It's quite unusual. Edward Seckerson (Gramophone) summed it up best, by stating that never has a performance that was so unidiomatic of Mahler, been so enjoyable to listen to. The detail is amazing, and it really doesn't bother me that Boulez's grand, over-the-top ending to Part 1 out-shines his ending to Part II (which ain't so bad, either). It could use much more audible tam-tam smashes at the end of Part II. However, the balances between the brass - both offstage and onstage - and the organ are very well gauged. I also think that the very beginning of the symphony is perfectly gauged on the Boulez - not too fast; not too slow. Not too much organ (acutally, it's hard to have too much organ); not too much brass either. Just right.

With Nagano, I like his Part I more than his Part II (a poor tenor, and way too small childrens chorus). For me, he takes way too long to get his Part II revved-up, as the Wagnerian sounding orchestral passages that happen earlier on are just too lax and calm sounding. Boulez is almost equally slow with those same passages, but there's more tension: louder horns and more rhythmic strings.

For me, Rattle is just the opposite: I like his Part II much more than his Part I. He rushes a bit in the big double fugue of Part I, as well as the ending of Part I. Some of the grandeur of that music gets robbed, not to mention choral textures not getting sufficiently clarified. But his Part II is superbly put together. Put Nagano's Part I with Rattle's Part II, and you'll have yourself one hell of a Mahler 8th.

As for the Bertini M8, I just like his pacing and priorities. I like it that he robs the "three penitant women" passages, allowing more time for the symphony's ending. Some people don't care for that, but I think that the vocal writing throughout the penitant women passages is rather over-rated. The interesting detail is in the orchestra, and it's actually easier to hear and digest at a more flowing tempo, I think.

Great piece; hard to go wrong. I probably like the Solti the least, among big-name recordings of the work. It's good if you like lots of strong brass; and loud, up-frong singers.  But I think that there's a big disconnect between the strong, almost brittle sounding trumpets and trombones of the CSO, and the relatively soft voices of the Viennese choral forces. If you've ever seen a photo of how everyboy was laid out in the Sofiensaal while making that recording - well, that's just how it sounds. It was technically solid for its time. But I think it's quite dated now, especially from a purely musical standpoint.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 05:07:23 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline sperlsco

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2007, 05:29:15 PM »
How lovely to have an M8-a-thon. Something everyone should do atleast once in their lives.

There are eleven Mahler symphonies and twelve months to a year.  Every year, each month should be dedicated to touring a particular Mahler symphony.  Month number twelve can be dedicated to the songs and/or DKW.   If you want to fit music in by other composers, that is all right too.  ;D
Scott

Offline techniquest

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2007, 11:44:38 PM »
Sperlsco, what a great idea! It'll be January in a few weeks time, so why don't we start a thread then dedicated to Symphony No.1? (Can't wait for February's Resurrection-a-thon!!!)
BTW, my favourite Boulez M8 is the live 1975 Proms performance :) Anyone know what the Neeme Jarvi M8 is like? It keeps cropping up on ebay and I am beginning to get tempted. Should I bite or run away?

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 07:54:38 AM »
The Jarvi M8 is very fast - pretty much just as fast as Gielen's first one (which got issued on Sony's budget priced Essentials series). However, I really like it. It's very well recorded for a live performance, and the ending is very exciting, with plenty of dynamic range. There are also some decent solo vocal contributions, especially from the females. Really, it's not bad at all.

Offline stillivor

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 08:39:50 PM »
  techniquest, welcome.

  My own standard answer to that sort of question is, follow yout interest or intuition tather than ask someone else to decide for you.  :-X
   
  Ivor

Offline sperlsco

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 04:51:01 PM »
Okay, I decided to join the M8-a-thon yesterday. I decided to give a second spin to the Boulez M8, which I found interesting and different the first time.  On second review, this recording does little for me.  There is indeed a lot of detail and interesting touches, but for the most part this performance is just too straight-laced and even keel for me.  For Part 1, the return of Veni Creator Spiritus (following the fugue) is a complete non-event.  The end of the Gloria section, where Boulez really draws out the music, starts out as a great idea because of all the audible detail, but Boulez never lets the tension release, and the ending just lays there.  UGH!  Compare this same section with Nagano, who also stretches out the ending, but then releases the tension at the very end and making for a satisfying conclusion.  Comparing the opening orchestral section of Part II in Boulez v. Nagano, I have the exact opposite feelings as Barry.  Both have slow timings, but I feel the Nagano is building to the big moments (and finally to the singing) whereas Boulez seems slow, steady, and without real purpose.  Boulez has great audible detail, but misses the bigger picture - a constant throughout to my ears.  I will give Boulez this, he has one of the better tenors to sing the piece, certainly approaching the level of Kollo, Heppner, and the tenors on Kubelick, Maazel.  I do not have a problem with Nagano's tenor, though.  He is stretched to his limits, but he does hold it together and sounds rather "soulful" to my ears (this same tenor was absolutely dreadful in the live radio performance that pre-dated the recording).  Boulez' Gretchen is also much better than the one for Nagano, but she is far from one of the better ones.  Actually, the most offensive Gretchen is the one for Davis/BRSO -- she truly is unlistenable to me -- although I like much of Davis' performance. 

I'll probably pull out my other go-to M8 this week -- Sinopoli/Philharmonia.  This one features the best combination of conducting/playing/singing to my ears, and has one of the best endings.  The only downside is that the sound can be slightly harsh and lacks a bit of fullness.  There are lots of M8's that I love, though:  off the top of my head, Sinopoli, Nagano, Chailly, Bertini/Cologne (his Tokyo remake is dreadful), Inbal, Bernstein (DVD), Witt, and perhaps Ozawa, Gielen/SWR (I know that I am forgetting a few).   

NOW, WHERE IS THAT LITTON/DALLAS ONE THAT WAS PROMISED AFTER THE DEATH OF DELOS' OWNER?????
Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 08:30:29 PM »
Ditto here. The Boulez/DG M8th doesn't sound very much engaging. I don't know exactly what's wrong but on my second hearing it somewhat left me cold and unmoved.

John,


Offline techniquest

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 10:20:55 PM »
After a lull of far too long, I joined in the M8-a-thon this evening by listening to the Wyn Morris / Symphonica of London recording on IMP. This is showing it's age (1972) but I grew up with the M8 and so I do have a soft spot for it. I'll confess that I am far more familiar with part 2 than part 1, but the symphony gets off to the right kind of rip-roaring start, not too fast but not dragging it's feet. The soloists all sound pretty competent to me, though both they and the choir are sometimes a little on the quiet side. Part 2 starts off exceptionally slowly - the first section up to and including 'Waldung Sie' coming in at over 19 minutes! It sounds good though with tons of restraint, very hushed, very atmospheric. The boys sound good in the later section with the nicely recorded mandolin, and they also come in well during the Blicket Auf which is (to my mind) really well sung. On hearing this recording after such a long time, I was a little disappointed with the 'chorus mysticus' which is just a bit too loud ('p' rather than 'pp'), but the build up to the end is fantastic. Wyn Morris is so very restrained in almost the whole of Part 2, that you've been waiting for this moment when he can really put his foot down and unleash the Symphonica of London forces! All goes well until the organ entry which seems to have completely lost its keyboards - a deep pedal note is all you get, and it remains all you get for this whole closing section. On the plus side, the horns are pure Mahler and the tam-tam player has certainly stayed for the duration with 4 satisfying wallops.

Offline Leo K

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 05:59:27 PM »
Good review Tech, thanks for that.

I have to revist the Boulez more times, but I actually do like this CD...I'm not sure why yet...maybe it's the first movement climax that Barry mentioned...it is glorious. I also like the beginning of II...very spacious with a sense of occasion. 



--Leo


Offline John Kim

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Re: M8-A-Thon
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2007, 06:16:12 PM »
Make no mistake. Technically the Boulez M8th is a triumph. No other recording boasts such a high level of playing in all the departments. The sound is uniformly good, but somewhat lacks the kind of impact that we expect from current day digital recordings. I really wish DG could afford to put it in SACD format.

John,

 

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