Let's not get TOO political, but how ironic is it (re: Gergiev)?

[barry guerrero]

.    .     .   how ironic is it that he's been performing Mahler with the World Orchestra For Peace? Personally, I wouldn't mind if he weren't flown in to Moscow to attend cabinet meetings with Putin, or if he'd keep his dumb mouth shut regarding Russia's backward policies towards gays, etc. But it IS a bit ironic, is it not?

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Mahler-1860-1911_000000000019272/item_Mahler-Symphony-No-6-Roxanna-Panufnik-R-Strauss-Gergiev-World-Orchestra-for-Peace-Proms-2014_6433540


http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Mahler-1860-1911_000000000019272/item_Symphonies-Nos-4-5-Gergiev-World-Orchestra-for-Peace-Tilling-S-Proms-2010_6433541

[AZContrabassoon]

The list of musicians who played politics is long, distinguished, and largely unimportant. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are outraged that Gergiev consorts with a socially conservative, right-wing Putin. So does Thieleman. But there are others who are just as disgusted by those who suck up to the left: Bernstein is the most well-known example. There are some who are angry that some conductors (Dudamel) stays silent regarding the conditions back home. So yes, The World Orchestra for Peace might seem an odd name to some. But there are others who think that Russia's attitude toward gays isn't backward. It certainly isn't based on religion. Maybe Russians just prefer traditional culture and the perceive a lot of what's wrong in the west with a sudden loss of those standards of tradition. I personally find the official Russian stance on denying Tchaikovsky's homosexuality hysterically funny - and wrong.

[akiralx]

But the Russian attitude is just distorted - telling gay visitors to the Winter Olympics to 'stay away' from the nation's children... 

It's just rampant homophobia dressed up in religion, as it often is.

[ChrisH]

Actually, the Russians look at it as a psychological issue. I would be surprised if the states stance has anything at all to do with religion.

[barry guerrero]

Nobody is talking about it, but they're having the same sort of right wing, conservative and reactionary government reigning in Hungary as well. The irony with that, is that Budapest is one of the low budget porn and sex capitals of the world, along with Prague and the San Fernando Valley.

[AZContrabassoon]

It's just rampant homophobia dressed up in religion, as it often is.

That would be true if we're talking about Muslim countries, but there is not one so-called Christian country left that openly is hostile to homosexuals. Sure, there are individuals all over who take that stance, but no official state doctrine - they base it on psychological issues. After 70 years of the Soviets, religion in Russia was largely destroyed and the leaders have been and still are largely atheists.

Which brings this up: can a true atheist really do Mahler well? Such a spiritual composer and it seems the most moving, passionate performances and recordings have been made by non-atheists. Like Bernstein, Mitropolous, Honeck, Walter. But then there are some other fine readings from well-known non-religious, such as the Klemperer's M2.

[ChrisH]

Which brings this up: can a true atheist really do Mahler well? Such a spiritual composer and it seems the most moving, passionate performances and recordings have been made by non-atheists. Like Bernstein, Mitropolous, Honeck, Walter. But then there are some other fine readings from well-known non-religious, such as the Klemperer's M2.

I don't see why not. I'd imagine that Mahler would have mostly likely been agnostic, if not an atheist outright. Mahler's religion was art. I do agree that Mahler was a very spiritual person, but that doesn't equate being religious. I can see no reason that spirituality/religion would have any bearing on their ideas concerning Mahler's work. A Buddhist, I think, would be much more successful understanding Mahler than a Catholic/Protestant/Jew.

Can Barenboim do Wagner justice? Could an atheist conduct Bruckner, or Bach?

[akiralx]

It's just rampant homophobia dressed up in religion, as it often is.

That would be true if we're talking about Muslim countries, but there is not one so-called Christian country left that openly is hostile to homosexuals.

There are various states in the USA which seem opposed to gay marriage, legislatively at least.

[hrandall]

While I certainly feel Gergiev can express his views as he wishes - to the extent he is allowed by the Putin regime in his own country - his support of the invasion and occupation of Ukraine by Russia means that for me personally, I won't buy any of his recordings or see him perform anywhere. He's free to speak, and I'm free to not support him.

[barry guerrero]

"He's free to speak, and I'm free to not support him."

.   .    .  and I think you're part of what's becoming an ever increasing number of folks who feel just the way you do. It's not surprising.

[AZContrabassoon]

Boycotting an artist because of his/her political beliefs would make us all so much poorer. Yet, I know people who adamantly refuse to listen to or own a recording by Karajan, Furtwangler, Bohm, Jochum, Gieseking or any other artist who in anyway supported the Nazis. Won't listen to Wagner, either. Maybe I'm just immoral, but it hasn't stopped me one bit. I've been buying the CPO series of cds by the rabid Nazi Paul Graener - it's great music. And Oswald Kabasta (another Nazi) was a fine conductor. So it is with Gergiev - his recordings of the Rimsky-Korsakov operas are brilliant. Same with the Prokofieff works. And some of his Mahler with the LSO are compelling. Separate the artist from his private life.

[merlin]

"Separate the artist from his private life."

For me, there can be no separation.  There is no difference between how I behave and what I espouse, and the art I create.  In fact, one informs the other.  It cannot be otherwise.

Separation, and attendant dissociation, is what leads to violence and other inhumane actions.

[barry guerrero]

Wow, did I ever open a Pandora's box! We have so many 'informed' and well thought out viewpoints here. I think I'm more in the camp of AZContrabassoon, but then Merlin makes a strong counterpoint as well. Where does one draw the line, one way or the other?

How about someone like Shostakovich, who had little choice but to cooperate with a regime that was every bit as evil and violent as that of Hitler's?

[Phoenix]

....but there is not one so-called Christian country left that openly is hostile to homosexuals. Sure, there are individuals all over who take that stance, but no official state doctrine.

Actually there is one "Christian" state government, besides Russia, that is openly hostile to homosexuals, Uganda, policies that were imported to Uganda by U.S. evangelicals.  And, as someone else memtioned, several U.S. State governments have repressive laws condemning homosexuals.  However, ironically, these same states have no laws condemning adultery, the number one cause of the destruction of the family unit. 

Say what one will about how Muslim country treats gays, one has to agree the governments are consistent in their execution of Islamic Law.  Something that can't be said of the "Christian" states that push for the exection of homosexuals.  Can you imagine a U.S. State legislature passing a law stating any woman who was not a virgin on her wedding day must be taken out of the city gates and stoned to death?  And that is only one of hundreds of Talmudic Laws that is conveniently ignored by our "righteous" legislators.