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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Russell on February 19, 2009, 10:32:37 PM
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The Boston Symphony is releasing new recordings again, this time under its own label. (Click link below.) Among the first 4 new releases is a 'live' Levine M6, available as a download only (with a hi-res option). All of their recordings will be available as downloads; some will be released on SACD as well. (I guess they thought the SACD market was oversaturated with M6s???) Anyone here familiar with this performance?
http://www.bso.org/bso/mods/c_09_gen_images.jsp;jsessionid=TPSPJPV12BGL4CTFQMGSFEQ?id=36700016
Here's the direct link to the M6 (with timings):
http://www.bso.org/bso/shop/audioDetail.jsp?pid=prod3190035&area=&id=bcat13360032
Russell
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Thanks for the heads-up. I've purchased downloads from the Philly and Milwaukee orchestras in the past. I look forward to the Boston ones.
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Those timings are nearly identical to Ozawa's! Anyway, I wish they would make Levine's BSO M8 available. I guess there's always too many mouths to feed with the 8th.
Barry
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Actually, these timings look very much similar to Levine's earlier recording with LSO on RCA.
John,
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I'll probably download this M6 as over the last few months I've been rediscovering Levine, and realising that just about every recording I've got from him has been nigh-on top notch: Wagner, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Saint Saens, Beethoven...
I have a few of his old Mahler recordings though accept he'll have got a little slower since then.
The mp3 files will be at 320kbps by the way, I've found that info on the site.
Has he ever recorded (or even performed) Bruckner?
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I have a live BSO concert recording of M3rd conducted by Levine. It is absolutely magnificent in its sheer scale and power in brining out all the musical and emotional contents. The finale lasted nearly 30 min. but never sounded dragging or elaborated. It flowed so naturally and yet was full of power. I'd like to hear him conduct Mahler Ninth with BSO someday.
John,
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I have enjoyed the first Mahler semi-cycle from Mr. Levine with various orchestras. Would like to buy his download but need someone's help.
I use a Mac and am used to downloading AIFF files. How would I convert this WMA so I can play it? Or, does an application such as ITunes convert it automatically?
Thanks for your help.
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I have enjoyed the first Mahler semi-cycle from Mr. Levine with various orchestras. Would like to buy his download but need someone's help.
I use a Mac and am used to downloading AIFF files. How would I convert this WMA so I can play it? Or, does an application such as ITunes convert it automatically?
Thanks for your help.
Click below to see a similar post I made on the Audio Asylum forum, and the response from Bob Stern. I haven't tried either of his suggested solutions yet, though...
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/25/253666.html
Russell
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Thanks for the heads up on this Russell! :D
--Todd
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I'm a PC/Windows user and decided to download the WMA Lossess 5.1 files, hoping that I had some piece of equipment with which to play these files. First, let me point out that the WMA lossless files indeed show up on my computer as "Windows Media Audio 9.2 Lossless VBR Quality 100, 88 kHz, 5.1 channel 24 bit 1-pass VBR" -- these are some big files at a total download of 3.65GB! Unfortunately, I cannot find a way to hear the files in their native multi-channel format (I previously had multi-channel analog outs from my home computer to my receiver -- but no longer).
I can use Windows Media Player (WMP) to play the files as 2-channel, but am not certain how the 5.1 channels are folded down to 2 channnels (or if it is just taking the front left/right channels). WMP can also burn the files to CD -- but with the same questions/limitations as above. I question the conversion because the performance seems to really lack any bass drum. I am wondering if anyone has had a different experience? Has anyone either dowloaded the 2-channel MP3 or have the capability to play the 5.1 channels. If so, is there a bass drum in the performance?
As an FYI, I used JRiver Media player to convert the files to multi-channel .wav format and still do not have a piece of equipment to play the files. I've unsuccessfully tried my Oppo 980DVD player and Denon 3808 receiver -- both can play WMA and .wav files, just not lossless 5.1. I may try to find a software that can convert the lossless 5.1 files to DVD format.
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Why don't the good folks at the BSO realize that FLAC is the way to go (rhyme totally unintended).
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Why didn't they release the Levine M6th in SACD format??
If there is any piece of music that needs to be heard in this format it must be Mahler's Sixth Symphony, isn't it?
John,
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Why didn't they release the Levine M6th in SACD format??
If there is any piece of music that needs to be heard in this format it must be Mahler's Sixth Symphony, isn't it?
John,
I'm guessing that the BSO figured that there are already too many M6s on SACD now:
Tilson Thomas (SFS)
Fischer (Channel)
Zander (Telarc)
Haitink (CSO)
Zinman (RCA)
Ashkenazy (Exton)
Bernstein/NY (Sony Japan)
Eschenbach (Ondine)
Abbado (DG)
Gergiev (LSO)
Jansons (RCO)
(Did I forget any? :) ) Still, I would've liked to have the Levine on SACD.....
Russell
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Why don't the good folks at the BSO realize that FLAC is the way to go (rhyme totally unintended).
Well the WMA lossless should be functionally identical to FLAC lossless files. I even think that FLAC may be capable of 5.1 channels. My problem is that I do not like the sound of the "folded" 2 channels -- at least in terms of what I perceive to be missing low frequency (i.e. bass drum). The rest of the sound is very good. I would be having the same issue/question/problem with a FLAC 5.1 file, since I do not have analog outs on my PC.
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Please correct me if I am wrong but:
Unless the file has a mixed-down stereo version, then there WOULD be sonic information missing (bass drum?) if 5.1 is listened to in stereo only. No? Most SACD/Hybrids contain the "regular" version, the SACD version (that's playable on machines that can read it), and a 5.1 version (could be Dolby Digital).
The BSO high-rez downloads appear only to be 5.1 versions. From the site..."you must have a device capable of playing back surround sound audio. If you do not, the audio will only play back the front-two left/right channels." No DSD stereo mix-downs seem to be available.
It would be wise for companies, orchestras, to forget the manufacture of hard media like CDs, SACDs and others, downloads (but at a fair prices and non DRM) will be the future. If one wants a hard copy, burn it. Although I am not totally comfortable with this futuristic outlook—I still enjoy cleaning and playing vinyl, reading program notes in LARGE type, and yes, also feasting on all the new music available on CDs and SACDs—the enormous quality (if not quantity yet) of high-rez downloads available when you want them, appears to be the next big wave. If more companies like HDTracks and Linn Recordings appear and prosper, the prices could also become more competitive. The latter 2 companies' downloads are outstanding although there isn't much yet that catches my fancy. By the way, you can now buy some of the CSO Resound downloads at HDTracks.
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Please correct me if I am wrong but:
Unless the file has a mixed-down stereo version, then there WOULD be sonic information missing (bass drum?) if 5.1 is listened to in stereo only. No? Most SACD/Hybrids contain the "regular" version, the SACD version (that's playable on machines that can read it), and a 5.1 version (could be Dolby Digital).
The BSO high-rez downloads appear only to be 5.1 versions. From the site..."you must have a device capable of playing back surround sound audio. If you do not, the audio will only play back the front-two left/right channels." No DSD stereo mix-downs seem to be available.
Yes, the quote from the BSO site is what has me wondering about this in the first place (as opposed to my making an outright claim that the sound is poor). I have no experience with these lossless 5.1 computer files, but I was able to burn a CD using Windows Media Player. WMP sees these files as 5.1, so I'm not certain what it does with all the data when writing to CD (i.e. the 3.1 not included in 2.0 channel stereo). It sure SOUNDS like it is just taking 2.0 channels, while ignoring the rest. I'm really surprised that WMP does not have some built-in fold-down logic, similar to what is built into the DVD-A spec. IIRC, multi-channel DVD-A discs (unlike most multichannel SACD) do not have a separate 2 channel stereo mix encoded on the discs themselves. Instead, the players have 2-channel fold-down logic built into them.
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So here's my suggestion, don't buy it! The timings are nearly identical to Ozawa's Philips recording, AND Levine's earlier LSO one (although, I think the slow movement was a tad longer).
Barry
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So here's my suggestion, don't buy it! The timings are nearly identical to Ozawa's Philips recording, AND Levine's earlier LSO one (although, I think the slow movement was a tad longer).
Barry
Hello,
I have purchased this as MP3 (320 quality is fairly good) and - not knowing the older recording, cannot even find it - I must say, that I like this very much. After hearing some M6's on the slower side recently (Zinman, Darlington), this M6 "feels" quicker than the timings indicate. Moreover, I like the brass and also the percussion very much.
This is a recording I really wanted to listen to again.
Regarding the format issue, I found, that 5.1. test files from the internet work on my iMac directly (these kind of tests, "front right", "rear back", etc. ). However, such files are opened with Quicktime, not in iTunes.
I have downloaded some lossless (stereo) WMA files from LinnRecords and could easily convert them to all other formats using iTunes on Windows, whereas on the Mac I have a tool for FLAC files.
Anyway, I cannot understand, why BSO uses this format and does not offer FLAC and WMA lossless as Linn does.
Best
Michael
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"Anyway, I cannot understand, why BSO uses this format and does not offer FLAC and WMA lossless as Linn does."
That's why I said what I said.
Barry
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The BSO has just added two new hi-rez (88.2/24) stereo options to their download formats: AIFF and WMA. Prior to this, their only stereo option was 320mbps MP3. I already downloaded the MP3 version of the M6, but would much rather have downloaded the hi-rez file had the choice been available at the time. (And it's only $1 more!) Oh well....
FWIW, I've only listened to the first 3 movements of Levine's M6 and was definitely NOT impressed. Not bad at all really, but nothing special--I don't feel very compelled to listen to the final movement, though I know I should. By contrast, I was MUCH more favorably impressed with the Gatti/ONF M6 download, and I'm anxious to listen to it again to see if my first impressions still hold.
Russell
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"I was MUCH more favorably impressed with the Gatti/ONF M6 download"
Gatti's N.Y. Phil. performance of Mahler 6 caused quite a sensation. I think that was less than a decade ago.
Barry
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By contrast, I was MUCH more favorably impressed with the Gatti/ONF M6 download, ...
Russell
Do you have a link to this download?
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"I was MUCH more favorably impressed with the Gatti/ONF M6 download"
Gatti's N.Y. Phil. performance of Mahler 6 caused quite a sensation. I think that was less than a decade ago.
Barry
I have a live Gatti M9th recording with an Italian orchestra. It is quite an intense and personal reading that could be also viewed as 'controversial', whatever it means.
John,
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By contrast, I was MUCH more favorably impressed with the Gatti/ONF M6 download, ...
Russell
Do you have a link to this download?
I got it from iTunes. It's part of the live 'Decca Concerts' series; here's a link to the page on Decca's site:
http://www.decca.com/deccaconcerts/releases.htm
Russell
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I finally acquired the Levine and Gatti M6ths.
I really liked the Levine. It's similar to his hyper charged recording with LSO back in the late 70's. But with help from the superlative playing by BSO Levine is able to imbue subtleties that were not present in the RCA version; the low brass and percussion are particularly impressive as are the rich strings. Levine's interpretation is somewhat cooler this time but is very sensitive to many details and dynamic markings. You might think the level of energy and passion has damped out this time, but it doesn't; the Finale is just as powerful as before with terrific hammer blows and once again the brass section shines here.
I hope BSO will release it in SACD format. I think it really deserves such a treat.
John,
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I gave a second listening last night and I liked it even better than the first time around.
Make no mistake, this one is as powerful and rocking as Levine's first one at go with LSO. His overall view of this symphony has changed very little except that now he sees it necessary to place the Andante second (which, IMO, is a mistake musically) and he reinstores the third hammer blow in the Finale. The orchestra sounds rich and beautiful as it always has been. As I said, the low brass and timpani are very prominent throughout (a tad more so than in the RCA recording) and outstandingly played. In the Finale's development section, Levine whips his orchestra into frenzy at a really fast tempo generating plenty of drama and excitement. The Scherzo is just as good as it was before, while he tightens the Andante under 15 min. this time; no doubt he felt it was necessary placing the Andante second.
All in all, an excellent M6th which deserves to be released in better sound, in SACD.
John,
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Glad you liked it, John. My understanding is that when Levine did the concerts, he switched the order from A-S for the first performance to S-A for the second. The third performance's order was going to be determined "after both options have been weighed", according to the Boston Globe's review of the first performance. (I don't know what it turned out to be.)
Russell
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Glad you liked it, John. My understanding is that when Levine did the concerts, he switched the order from A-S for the first performance to S-A for the second. The third performance's order was going to be determined "after both options have been weighed", according to the Boston Globe's review of the first performance. (I don't know what it turned out to be.)
Yes, it is correct. The event was 3 consents with A-S first one, S-A second one and A-S the thirds one – as it shall be. I was at the second and third one there and herd the first one live. The fist and third consents were so-so but during the second on Saturday the BSO woke up from their typical sleepy incapacity and demonstrated a bit more live, color and enthusiasm. It did not last long and it did not full transferred into the 88/24 recording. The lessen formats with M6 that released shall be discarded.
The Cat
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Romy, you're back! What have you been up to? You are quite cat like.
Barry