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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Wunderhorn on January 09, 2007, 10:08:36 PM
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I've only heard Bernstein/Vienna, Inbal/FRSO, Maazel/Vienna of Mahler's 5th and I would say it is a close call between Bernstein and Inbal. Inbal has better sound which comes out richer in the 'stringy' climax in the finale. I'm not especially excited over idiosyncratic recordings. Does anyone have a recommendation?
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i listened to about 20 intros to that work last week to compare some trumpet styles.
the ones that sounded as though they would continue to be good beyond that point were -
maazel/vpo
mehta/nypo
levi/atlanta
the ones i have are; solti/cso & inbal/frankfort...with a scherchen/ortf just to hear the french guys do it.
dj
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My favorite M5ths are,
Tennstedt/NYPO/NYPO
Tennstetd/LPO/EMI live
Shipway/RPO/RPO
Inbal/FRSO/Denon
Jansons/PSO (pirate)
Solti/CSO/Decca
and
Ozawa/BSO/Philips!! ;D
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Coincidentally, I put the Inbal M4 and M5 in my car yesterday, along with the Rattle M3. It has been a long time since I listened to any of these recordings, and I just finished listening to the "surprisingly" excellent Inbal M4. I really couldn't remember much about either of the Inbal performances, and Vatz' revisiting of the Bertini box had me wondering how competitive the Inbal box would be. I'll post my impressions of his M5 in a couple of days.
As for the Maazel, I have a general rule for Mahler: avoid Maazel. His Mahler is generally stiff, mannered, and slow. His VPO M4 has Kathleen Battle, which is the only thing that makes it a must-own. His VPO M2 is a good effort. As for this thread and his M5, it is stiff, mannered, and devoid of any tension -- avoid at all costs (do not be sucked in by the bargain price).
The Bernstein/VPO is easily a top choice. I also consider some of the other ones previously mentioned to be my first tier favorites: Tennstedt/LPO (live, not studio), Solti/CSO (70's analog/studio, not 80's/90's live digital), and Mehta/NYPO. The Solti is a rather aggressive reading, but it was the first M5 that I really liked (the first one I ever bought was actually the dreaded Maazel).
Others that I put in my first tier of favorites are Chailly, Karajan (see recent thread), and Boulez -- all off the top of my head.
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Scott,
I'd agree on the Inbal M4th. It's amazingly good. Like yourself, I don't remember listening to this recording so often in the past but recently I revisited it and was really surprised that it's so good. I have a fond memory of the Solti/CSO M5th (the 70's studio one); it was my first M5th and I also heard him doing the work live in Austin, Texas in mid 80's. I was blown away by the concert.
Try Tennstedt/NYPO/NYPO Box set M5th. It's even better than his live one with LPO. Better played and better recorded.
John,
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Thank you for the recommendations. I've always been a fan of this symphony. I'm thinking of getting the Chailly boxset, but haven't decided yet. Another possibility might be Abaddo/Berlin/Mahler5.
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Personlly, I feel that the Berlin 5th is one of Abbado's "snoozier" performances. For the Berlin Phil., I still like the Karajan the best. My favorite commerical M5's - the ones that you can walk into a store and buy - are: Chailly (Decca); Barenboim (Warner); Boulez (DG); Karajan (DG) - not necessarily in that order.
If money and time are no object, my favorite M5 from start to finish is the Markus Stenz one from Austrailia (Melborne) on ABC Classics. Stenz is now the conductor of the Gurzenich Orchestra in Cologne; the one that gave the world premiere of the 5th in 1905. I believe that it was Stenz opening work with them as well. I believe that he did the entire cycle in Melborne, and there's now an expensive "Resurrection" available as well.
By the way, I think that the Inbal one is pretty good, and is certainly more exciting than Abbado/BPO. Frankly, I like Abbado's earlier Chicago one better.
Barry
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Oh, if you have a DVD player that also plays DVD-A(udio) discs (mine does!), you may want to consider getting the Rattle/BPO M5 on DVD. EMI throws in a DVD-A of the performance, which has far better sound than the regular CD.
Barry
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By the way, I think that the Inbal one is pretty good, and is certainly more exciting than Abbado/BPO. Frankly, I like Abbado's earlier Chicago one better.
Barry
I also like Abbado's Chicago M5, excellent brass, love the growling trombones near the end if the 2nd mvmt. 8)
Vatz
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. . . lots of tam-tam underneath the first movement's funeral cortege as well.
Barry
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Scott,
I'd agree on the Inbal M4th. It's amazingly good. Like yourself, I don't remember listening to this recording so often in the past but recently I revisited it and was really surprised that it's so good. I have a fond memory of the Solti/CSO M5th (the 70's studio one); it was my first M5th and I also heard him doing the work live in Austin, Texas in mid 80's. I was blown away by the concert.
Try Tennstedt/NYPO/NYPO Box set M5th. It's even better than his live one with LPO. Better played and better recorded.
John,
I heard the live M5 Tennstedt/LPO in Osaka Japan during the Holidays...wow, what a great performance there...It didn't make an impression on my first hearing, but the second time around I was amazed by the interpetation, which is rather dark. But I couldn't get the performance outta my mind after Christmas.
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Leo,
If you're talking about the live Tennstedt/LPO M5 from 1988 on EMI, unfortunately, that one's now long out of print. Indeed, it's very good.
Barry
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Leo,
If you're talking about the live Tennstedt/LPO M5 from 1988 on EMI, unfortunately, that one's now long out of print. Indeed, it's very good.
Barry
Available from Japan for less than $10 USD.
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1866098 (http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1866098)
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/18/6/6/098.jpg)
...make that $10 plus $20 shipping. ;D
Actually, I used to see that one on ebay every so often.
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(http://img.towerrecords.co.jp/images/jacket/tower/4939589000155.jpg)
This is the CD I'm talking about (the performance comes from Japan in 1984). Real killer performance too!
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Wow! That's pretty cool. If they give the timings, would you mind sharing them? Thanks.
Barry
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(http://img.towerrecords.co.jp/images/jacket/tower/4939589000155.jpg)
This is the CD I'm talking about (the performance comes from Japan in 1984). Real killer performance too!
That's right, I forgot about that one. I have also seen that one on ebay -- it went for big bucks!! :(
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Wow! That's pretty cool. If they give the timings, would you mind sharing them? Thanks.
Barry
Sure, here are the timings (there is some time between each movement to tune and etc between the movements, but I'm not figuring that in).
I. 14: 38
II. 15:34
III. 18:07
IV. 12:04
V. 15:07
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That looks fairly normal, and I think it's more similar to his 1998 timings than to those on his late '70s one. The finale is quicker.
Barry
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If I may throw in another favorite recording into the M5 sweepstakes--the Haitink/Concertgebouw from 1970. It's direct, straightforward, and unfussy in the best early-Haitink manner. (Haitink admirers will know what I mean.) It's like a breath of fresh air after the interpretive excesses of others. (Not that I don't like them, but it's always good to come back to this one.) Sonically, it's a bit thin and less warm than typical Philips/Concertgebouw recordings from later in that decade, but it should get a nice shot in the arm when PentaTone releases it as an SACD later this year.
Russell
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I own the Bruckner/Haitink/Boxset, since I'm a fan of it, I'm curious if I would like his Mahler boxset? I think it was a 'prophetic' on Haitink's part, having conducted the complete symphonies of Bruckner and Mahler with the Ceoncertgebouw. Everyone knows these two composer are the climax of symphonic literature. Notice how, at that time, it was only Haitink who conducted them both.
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Regarding the Inbal/Frankfurt M5:
I am slowly re-touring the Inbal box to see how it measures up to the Bertini, Chailly, and Gielen sets that have been more recently released. Strangely, I could not remember a thing about the M4 or M5 of this set. The M5 is very well done, and has a particularly exciting finish. Inbal can be a tad fussy in terms of pushing and pulling the music, but he makes it work very well. The Adagietto is a rather slow one, but Inbal does a superb job of highlighting the section that reappears in the finale.
Also in my re-tour, I was reminded that Inbal's M3 easily belongs in my very top tier of favorite M3's.
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Everyone knows these two composer are the climax of symphonic literature.
What do you mean by "climax of the symphonic literature"?
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The symphonic idea of Beethoven climaxed at Bruckner and Mahler. It just sort of lost its fizzle in one way or another with other characters who used all manners of 'isms', 'shock effects', and generel bad taste; All experiment in hopes they would be remembered as pioneers, to what I have no clue.
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The symphonic idea of Beethoven climaxed at Bruckner and Mahler.
What "symphonic idea" are you referring to? I don't know what this means.
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Well there is word out there that might just hit the nail on the head, "Romantic Symphony". Sibelius I suppose. :-\ Though it's difficult to say his style culminates from anything. Shostakovitch was Russian National'ism' and 'shock effect' combined, though if I want his brand, I'd rather hear M6. I guess your quarel is well founded if you need be such a music 'Liberal'; Though I still feel most people would agree with me. I have an idea, I'll start a poll!
P.S. Just acquired Blomstedt's Sibelius Symphony Cycle ;D
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Hello there Wunderhorn,
I am not sure what you mean. A music "liberal"? Is that a negative thing? I hardly imagine it is ;)
In terms of using large scale Sonata form in an orchestral context, I feel you can't rule out Shostakovich, who, for good or bad, was influenced by Bach, Beethoven and Mahler in his large scale symphonic composition (whether he was successful is a matter of personal opinion of course). I don't believe he can be narrowed down to just being "nationalistic" with a bunch of shock effects thrown in.
I find it is difficult to accept such generalizations (over an artists output) without the critical commentary to support such claims :)
Regarding "shock" effects, if you like Mahler, how can you be judgemental over using such "vulgarities" in large scale symphonic writing?
Todd
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I wasn't trying to narrow down to only that. An it would be narrowing me down to imply I did. >:(
I'm sorry, I think I misinterpeted your post. I was just posing some questions for debate, and it wasn't my intention to insult in any way. :-[
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It's OK, sometimes I can be quite naive. ;D