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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: barry guerrero on September 27, 2008, 10:00:35 AM
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Claudio Abbado has always kept a special place in his heart for Mahler's 3rd symphony. Whether you, as the listener, share the exact same view of it is another topic. Unfortunately, his two commercial recordings of M3 for DG suffered from exact opposite problems. The 1980 Vienna one was a very early digital recording, and suffered from a very exaggerated dynamic range. In order to hear the softest parts clearly, the loud parts could blow you right out of the room. As if to fix that problem, DG overshot their mark on Abbado's Berlin Phil. remake, recorded live in London. That one is the perfect Mahler 3 if you own a restaurant, since the dynamic range isn't much wider than - ohhh, let's say - Vivaldi's "Four Seasons". Fortunately, this 2007 performance from the Lucerne Festival, captured on an excellent looking and sounding DVD, gets it just right.
Here, the dynamic range is still very wide, but you can discern the softest parts - assuming that nobody is running the vacuum in your house - without getting complaints from your neighbors over the loudest bits (assuming that they're not just on the other side of the nearest wall). And while Abbado still has a tendency to want to "over prettify" things here and there, the performance is mostly outstanding. Both the trombone solo and offstage "posthorn" solo are excellent, with Abbado keeping the proceedings flowing along nicely during the long posthorn solos (3rd movement). The vocal and choral aspects are outstanding as well. Anna Larsson sounds as good here as she ever has in Mahler 3, and the Tolzer Knabenchor can sing circles around the world-famous Wiener Sangerknaben anyday; at least, in Mahler 3, anyway. And what of Abbado? . . .
Well, I've seen Abbado conduct M3 in London, and I've seen him on numerous videos and dvd's. I feel that this was the best conducting job I've ever seen him do. I've often times found Abbado difficult to watch, as I find myself troubling over just exactly where the beat is, as well as what it is that he's wanting when his hands begin trembling, and he has that look of wanting something more - or something different - and not being able to communicate just what it is that he's looking for. I didn't see any of that here.
I felt that Abbado had full command from start to finish, and that anybody could have deciphered just exactly what he was wanting at any particular moment. And by the way, there was no score or stand in front of him. I also noticed something else unusual too - something having to do with these very same players. There was no swaying of torsos all about the room!!! Perhaps it was just a matter of camera placement this time, but I didn't see the entire string section swaying about the room like some kind of giant, collective Mixmaster churning around pastry dough. You might feel that this is a trivial issue, but I seriously found his Mahler 5 DVD hard to watch for this very reason. I was getting seasick! No such problem here.
I'd like to comment about one other aspect: the end of the symphony. Here, Abbado somewhat tones down the two sets of timpani, but not nearly so much as he did in his earlier Vienna recording (which just sounded waaay too mushy). He gets a fairly lovely brass sound as well: saturated; noble sounding, and without detectable strain - just as Mahler prescribes. I also think that he judges the length of the final chord just right: long, but not TOO long (he held it for all eternity in his Vienna recording). By and large, the camera work is excellent here.
John, Todd,
You two will definitely want to add this one to your collection.
Barry
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This is very exciting news Barry...thanks for the thoughtful review! I will definitely pick this up as soon as I can.
--Todd
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Ditto to Todd's comment. Barry's review has me wanting to hear (and see) this Abbado M3.
John H
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So far I have only enjoyed the TV broadcast in arte channel. I love this performance, which I feel goes from less to more. The Final Langsam is an Abaddo’s speciality and it is so moving as in his previous recordings. I also felt that softening of the percussion in the very end. It makes a big difference with the standard triumphal ending. A sign of resignation or acquiescence from Abbado?
I have one question. Has been edited the tremendous false entry of Anna Larsson in the fourth movement? Incredible in a singer so familiar with this piece.
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Re: Anna Larsson:
Hmmm. Didn't you just say: "Nowadays it is almost impossible to find technical flubs or slips in any recording, even in pseudo “live” recordings."
Dave H
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I didn't notice a wrong or false entry on Larsson's part. I'll will check that out again. Is it right at the very start, or further in?
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Re: Anna Larsson:
Hmmm. Didn't you just say: "Nowadays it is almost impossible to find technical flubs or slips in any recording, even in pseudo “live” recordings."
??? Dave, what I have told absolutely confirm my point. In the real concert, broadcast by arte, Anna Larsson commits an embarrasing mistake which according to Barry has been edited out in the DVD. I can't imagine how the engineers have managed to do it .
Barry, If you did not notice it, even at a first viewing, sure it was edited out. It is terribly evident. Fortunately Abbado reacts swiftly but it is late enough. It happens at the beginning -I have not here the tape; when I got back home I'll cut it and upload to the forum, so you will be able to compare it with the commercial recording.
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This is just the speculation of a novice, but is it possible that Amazon's cancellation of pre-orders of this work was because of delays brought about by the need to edit out a false entry? Production delay for editting?
--John H
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So is this available commercially yet?
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Amazon.com had it listed as a "pre-order" until a couple of days ago.
I saw it listed as available from ArkivMusic.com, but when I ordered it there, I was given a message that it is on backorder.
--John H
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It's to be released this Tuesday through Naxos. I was lucky enough to get an advance copy.
As for the mistake on Ms. Larsson's part, it might be there. I might have dozed off slightly at that point. I'll look at the fourth movement again and report back. I was truly awake for ALL of the other movements. The 2nd movement is excellent, and while the 1st movement could have used a tad more muscle here and there, Abbado really whips up the "southern storm" passage. It's just as fast as when he did it with the VPO, but the playing is much cleaner and clearer with the LFO. The coda to the first movement is quite good too. However, the two big tam-tam smashes in the first movement - the one at the end of the trombone solo (which becomes a quartet), and the other located at the coda - could have been stronger.
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I might have dozed off slightly at that point.
It would have woken you up ;)
Don't worry actually I have watched this japanish youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phBi9QSAlVU&feature=related of the DVD and it is wiped out.
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... and here's a video clip of the 4th movement which still includes the mistake Larsson made, being the original and unedited arte-TV broadcast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCEr2mWhYs8
I don't mean to post this in order to make fun of anyone involved, as I greatly liked Anna Larsson's contribution to this indeed very, very wonderful recording. But Abbado's immediate reaction at 2:07 is quite priceless in its brief display of panic. ;) But he sure knows this piece really inside out.
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Thanks for posting the you-tube clip, je-b.
Poor Claudio--that flash of panic, the instant reaction to a false entry.
Perhaps I'll sound as though I'm making excuses for Anna Larsson, but my thought is that she watches conductors so intently that when Abbado cued the orchestra, she took it as her cue. I know--soloists are supposed to hold their own, but I've observed Larsson to be so sympathetic to a conductor's interpretation that the "error" is more understandable in that context.
--John H
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??? Dave, what I have told absolutely confirm my point. In the real concert, broadcast by arte, Anna Larsson commits an embarrasing mistake which according to Barry has been edited out in the DVD. I can't imagine how the engineers have managed to do it .
That's easy...Abbado performed Mahler's Third twice in Lucerne, and both performances were filmed (most likely even the final rehearsal was filmed). Larsson's mistake was on the second evening, and that's the concert Arte broadcasted that same evening, with an about 30min delay.
The available material has been more than enough to hide that mistake (and some other small glitches in the live orchestral playing) in the final product. Don't know why it's so hard to find this DVD around...at this year's Lucerne Festival there were plenty available for purchase.
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As Richard Wagner hinted in his Ring of the Nibelung, Wotan and others should have listened to Fasolt and Fafner.
Seriously, thanks Fafner, for helping clear up the mystery of the appearing/disappearing false entry--two performances and plenty of film.
--John H
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I wanted to post a further comment here on Barry's review of the Abbado M3 dvd.
If M3 is one of your favorites, please reread Barry's review at the start of this topic--he's "spot on."
This is a performance I will long cherish. It's exquisite in photography and sound, and as Barry reported, the dynamic range is the best Abbado yet.
Barry's right also about the difficulties of watching some of Abbado's mannerisms--looking for the beat and others. I'm always distracted briefly also by the delight on his face whenever the piccolo finishes a flute's phrase. It's like Claudio is delighted to see the happy little bird chirping.
So again, let me say, if you enjoy Mahler on dvd, please consider this one. Start by again reading Barry's review. This is a purchase you would not regret.
--John H
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Happy to see this new Abbado M3 arrive at my mailbox this afternoon...I know what I'll be watching tonight!
--Todd
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Thanks for the kind words, John. At $25, I think the Abbado M3 dvd is almost a bargain. It must have felt like a career highlight to Abbado.
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I bought my Abbado M3 dvd off Ebay for about 12 bucks...a real huge bargain for such a fine performance.
This M3 is a wonder to hear...dvd's usually have better sound and this is no exception...must be one of the best sounding M3's I've heard. Performance wise this sounds like another "spiritual" M3 like his earlier Vienna DG release, with the exception that the "flow" is more natural and the mood much more lighter in every movement. The first movement is much more exciting than his Vienna DG and more detailed than his badly recorded BPO M3, the II and III movements are glowing with the "Wunderhorn" spirit, so much so I can almost feel the humidity of the summer...thanks to the woodwind playing and pure tone of the brass. IV and V flow together with careful contrast...the dark tones of the Nietche universe not overshadowing the boys and girls in heaven...again reminscent of his Vienna DG but not in the "parsifal" spirit (as Barry described of that recording). The Finale, and especially the final chord has stayed with me ever since...I was moved to the core of my being on the rendition of this final hymn...a place including past, present and heavenly summer, surrounded by the late afternoon glow of the sun. I personally feel this is a fine Mahlerian achievement for Abbado.
This and the new Gergiev M3 are at the top of my list with the Zinman.
--Todd
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"Performance wise, this sounds like another "spiritual" M3 like his earlier Vienna DG release, with the exception that the "flow" is more natural and the mood much more lighter in every movement"
yeah, it's like a cross between the two earlier ones, but with better sound. Thumbs up. :D
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The Finale, and especially the final chord has stayed with me ever since...I was moved to the core of my being on the rendition of this final hymn...a place including past, present and heavenly summer, surrounded by the late afternoon glow of the sun. --Todd
Todd (and Barry) have noticed the almost spiritual qualities of this Abbado M3.
As I was watching and listening to it, just at the end my wife came in from her busy activities in another room, and said, "What WAS that? It was beautiful, and sounded so spiritual."
Perhaps I will use the finale of this M3 to try to start others on the road to an appreciation of the music of Mahler.''--John H
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The Finale, and especially the final chord has stayed with me ever since...I was moved to the core of my being on the rendition of this final hymn...a place including past, present and heavenly summer, surrounded by the late afternoon glow of the sun. --Todd
Todd (and Barry) have noticed the almost spiritual qualities of this Abbado M3.
As I was watching and listening to it, just at the end my wife came in from her busy activities in another room, and said, "What WAS that? It was beautiful, and sounded so spiritual."
Perhaps I will use the finale of this M3 to try to start others on the road to an appreciation of the music of Mahler.''--John H
That is wonderful to hear John!
--Todd
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Okay, the last post on this topic was Todd's, way back in November of last year.
Since then, I've watched the Abbado/Lucerne M3 four more times. I like it better each time.
I also enjoy the feature of the black cloths clipped over the bells of the trumpets and trombone in the final movement to damper the sound without forcing cracked notes because of the difficulty of playing so quietly.
Another observation is that they use a real posthorn for the posthorn serenade. You don't see it until the bows after the end of the performance, but for those of us who have always wondered what a posthorn looks like, the soloist appears holding it in plain view.
Strangely, Amazon still does not offer the Abbado M3 except through used sellers.
--John H
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hmmmm . . . I can't remember what the posthorn looked like. If it's like the Vienna Phil. one, it looks like a small, tightly wound (French) horn with three rotary valves. It has kind of a sweet sound, but not as dark and "covered" sounding as the flugelhorn. They're probably not easy to play fully in tune (placing triggers on the valve slides can help a lot, as long as you tune the horn slightly on the sharp side).
Barry
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As a follow up, I note this is available on blu-ray, reviewed here:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Mahler-3rd-Symphony-Claudio-Abbado-Lucerne-Festival-Orchestra-Blu-ray-Review/8170/
I will probably get this.
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As a follow up, I note this is available on blu-ray, reviewed here:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Mahler-3rd-Symphony-Claudio-Abbado-Lucerne-Festival-Orchestra-Blu-ray-Review/8170/
I will probably get this.
Yes, I am thinking of buying the blu-ray disc as someone's xmas present to me. ;D
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Euroarts/Medici Arts's plan is to complete the Abbado cycle both on DVD and Bluray by the end of 2011. This year we should see last year's 1th and the previously released 5th, 6th and 7th on Bluray. This autumn the plan is to release last year's 4th, a bit later than usual to allow some more time as another 4th was just released (the one with the Mahler Jugendorchester). By Spring 2011 the 2nd should be there on Bluray too. Later we'll get the 9th which will be performed this Summer. It's not clear yet what missing part will be performed next year for the cycle completation. During the 2007 festival it was stated the 8th would have been left out of the cycle by Abbado's request, but maybe he changed his mind, or maybe the missing part will just be the 10th's Adagio and there won't be any 8th, don't know. What's sure is that Mahler will be on Abbado's programs at Lucerne in 2011 too, this is confirmed by the Lucerne Festival 2010 main program.
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MTT/SFSO performed Mahler 8 while on tour in Lucerne, just a few years ago. Perhaps Euroarts might issue that instead (?). I hope so, because I'm sure it would as good or better than the piece-of-junk (just my opinion) they released as a commercial recording.
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MTT/SFSO performed Mahler 8 while on tour in Lucerne, just a few years ago. Perhaps Euroarts might issue that instead (?). I hope so, because I'm sure it would as good or better than the piece-of-junk (just my opinion) they released as a commercial recording.
I was there...it was recorded and broadcasted by the swiss radio and maybe some other radios as well, but there were no cameras in the concert hall. Havent's heard the released recording yet...the concert was very good but nothing to die for. I found the orchestra to be very precise but a bit lacking in body and soul. But it has to be said that Abbado has set the bar very high for Mahler at Lucerne in recent years. Too bad that the earliest recordings, although not bad, don't quite make him justice (the 2nd, the very dry sounding 5th recording).
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"But it has to be said that Abbado has set the bar very high for Mahler at Lucerne in recent years"
While I've not always been a huge Abbado fan over the years, I have no problem believing that statement at all. Thanks for voicing that comparison.