gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Stürmisch Bewegt on March 19, 2011, 07:49:32 AM
-
"Stones falling into the water", wrote Mahler above a few bars in his manuscript of 1rst movement of the 7th. I'm looking for exactly where it is ,because clearly there is a mistake in my De La Grange french edition. it's indicated : between bars 296 to 288! I found extracts of the DLG english edition on the net, but the page that interests me is missing. I think it's on page 844 of "Vienna , triump and desillusion". Could somebody satisfy my curiosity ?
-
"Stones falling into the water," wrote Mahler above a few bars in his manuscript of 1rst movement of the 7th. I'm looking for exactly where it is, because clearly there is a mistake in my De La Grange french edition. It's indicated: between bars 296 to 288! I found extracts of the DLG English edition on the net, but the page that interests me is missing. I think it's on page 844 of "Vienna, Triumph and Disillusion." Could somebody satisfy my curiosity?
Mathilde,
From page 844, at the end of the second paragraph:
"It is particularly interesting to note, above bars 284 to 288 (Bote & Bock score, 42), the phrase Steine pumpeln in's Wasser (stones plop into the water). This is probably Mahler's attempt to define the special kind of sonority he was aiming for by indicating that the bass instruments were to play pizzicato and arco simultaneously. 18
18 Reilly, 'Manuscripts', 80."
James
-
Many thanks for your help James ! And the interpretation of the words in question by HLDLG do not appear in the french edition. It's very interesting.
Mathilde
-
You're most welcome. The English word "plop" does make a satisfying onomatopoetic contribution.
-
First movement of M7 always appears to me like something "aquatic" in a sense, the "negative" passages giving me the impression of someone being about to drown and fighting to maintain his head out of the water ,and the "positive" passages giving me the impression of being transported to an other world by huge waves.
-
You're most welcome. The English word "plop" does make a satisfying onomatopoetic contribution.
"ploc" in french!
-
You're most welcome. The English word "plop" does make a satisfying onomatopoetic contribution.
"ploc" in french!
And "plopp" in Swedish.
Roffe
-
"This is probably Mahler's attempt to define the special kind of sonority he was aiming for by indicating that the bass instruments were to play pizzicato and arco simultaneously."
No, this is not what he meant at all. In the Leipzig edition of the first version, Mahler - always at the forefront of expanding the role and types of instruments in the Schlagzeug department (percussion) - wrote a part for a percussionist to drop stones into an overturned tenor drum, filled with water to the 7/8's full mark. After some dissatisfaction over this effect at the Prague premiere - which used the Graz edition but with the water drum/stones reinstated - Mahler brought his own stones from the Mondsee (Bad Ishil) to be used at the Amsterdam performance. However, both the Leipzig and Graz editions - thought to have been burned in a fire by Alma over her mistaken thought that the stones came from their second villa in Styria - have since totally vanished. There was also an incident where an inebriated percussionist at a Vienna Philharmonic rehearsal, overturned the tenor drum full of water and ruined some of the stage flooring at the Musikverein. The practice has since been completely dropped, and the plopping stones have since been delegated to the double basses. I know this to be true because Mengelberg's brother said so.
-
oh, wait . . . I just got word that they found the authentic 'water drum' after busting through a downstairs wall at the Concertgebouw. It seems that Mengelberg hated it so much that he had the drum forever buried in the confines of a wall. Chailly has since rushed it to Leipzig where it'll make its reappearance at the Mahler Festival there, coming soon. We don't have the Leipzig edition, but this important feature of it will be reinstated for the first time in over a century. Plop, plop; fizz, fizz - oh, what a joy this will be.
-
Wov, that was an interesting anecdote. Thank you Barry for sharing.
Roffe
-
Fabulous! Barry, isn't it indiscreet to ask you where you found this ?
Who knows if the Mahler Leipzig Festival concerts will be brodcasted ? I'm keeping an eye on the german radios programmes but didn't see anything yet.
-
No, this is not what he meant at all...
Very clever, Barry, but aren't you about a week early with this? ;D
James
-
too much beautiful to be true!
-
Even if it is not true, it is believable, even probable.
Roffe
-
Hahaha!!! Great one Barry! :D