Author Topic: Mahler at Tanglewood  (Read 12004 times)

Offline mahler09

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Mahler at Tanglewood
« on: June 24, 2010, 08:14:35 PM »
July 9th- Michael Tilson Thomas will be taking over for Levine in the BSO's performance of M2.  He will also be conducting M3 on July 17 (two performances).  The conductor of the July 31st performance of M4 has not been announced however.

Offline mahler09

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 11:50:28 PM »
http://www.wgbh.org/995/bso.cfm
FYI you can listen online to live Tanglewood broadcasts of Mahler.  M2 and M3 passed already but there's more to come...

Offline Romy The Cat

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 02:13:06 AM »
The MTT’s M2 with BSO was like nothing else – I was not exaggerating saying that people shall study this performance for years to come…

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=13964#13964

The Cat

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 11:08:21 PM »
Yes, well I hope he didn't do his patented, stupid and sudden slow-down towards the end of the scherzo - a section in which Mahler has already built in a slow-down by the length of the notes and rests at that spot.

Offline mahler09

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 02:43:46 AM »
I wasn't able to catch M2 but heard M4 last week and found it to be a solid performance.  The beginning of the first movement was faster than, say, Rattle, and the tempos were average with the symphony clocking in at about an hour.  The soprano was Hei-Kyung Hong.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 05:32:13 PM »
I've now heard a copy of the radio broadcast, and I truly hated the scherzo. MTT took it really fast, which I think is wrong (for the most part). And while the main climax was quite good, he then did his patented, sudden slow-down near the end of the scherzo; with even more exaggeration than on his S.F. recording (if that were even possible). Do me a favor, please steal away MTT to Boston. Here in S.F., I'd like to have someone else get a crack at Mahler; someone less slick and hyper-Bernstein like.

Offline Romy The Cat

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 10:18:38 PM »
Barry, you need to get some perspective, man.  Sure we all know the freaking symphonies by hart and we all have a strong opinion how it needs to be played. Yes, mostly we do not like this or that peace. Still, I more value in performance not the absolute rendered perfection but rather the highs of performing intentions.  In my view MTT aimed in this performance insultingly high, at least I saw in it this super high aim. It was sort of the concept of Stanislavsky’s super task…. Was everything perfect? Not really, as it shall be during live event. Still, the whole experience was wonderful and I praise this performance very high. Do not listen the recording as a critical snob. The whole play is like a one single sip of water; juts suck it in and swallow it, close your eyes and fell how the walls drains down to the guts….

Rgs, Romy the Cat

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 01:18:46 AM »
Sorry. I don't like MTT's Mahler, and am getting to like it less and less. It has nothing to do with the fact that he's not a particularly nice person, and has an ego the size of Manhattan. All I care about are the musical results, and I don't care for his. As I said, pleeeease take him.

Offline Romy The Cat

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 01:42:22 AM »
Sorry. I don't like MTT's Mahler, and am getting to like it less and less. It has nothing to do with the fact that he's not a particularly nice person, and has an ego the size of Manhattan. All I care about are the musical results, and I don't care for his. As I said, pleeeease take him.

Well, Barry, you are perfectly within your constitutional rights do not like neither MTT nor MTT’s Mahler. My comment was not a referendum about MTT. If you so look forward to get rid of him then why don’t you miserable Californians did not do it in 70s when BSO was debating who to become musical director: Ozawa vs. MMT. Reportedly Ozawa won because his hair was more photogenic for BSO marketing division. If you get Ozawa for 29 year as we did then I would see what kind songs you would sing about your hate of MTT. Also, we in Boston do not need your MMT, we need a good chiropractor to take care about our Levine…. Anyhow, MMT was for sure much more interesting in his young year. So do I, so do you I am sure…. BTW, if you so desperate to have cost-to-cost exchange then take the whole BSO – I do not like it here.  Leave the Tanglewood Chorus in Boston, take BSO and send to us a better orchestra…

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 01:51:39 AM »
Wow, Barry, you have that much power? 

I don't mind MTT's Mahler, but I don't spin it very often either. But I will always have huge respect for the man due to the fact that he is arguably one of the world's leading Ives conductors, and I am a huge Ives fanatic. Also, his Rite of Spring with the SFSO is my absolute favorite and I have a crapload of them (probably around 12 or 13 recordings). If he is prick or not, I don't really care - it's the music I am interested in. Wagner was an absolute cunt of the highest order in every aspect imaginable, but he still a brilliant composer.

Offline Romy The Cat

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 01:59:19 AM »
I have a live-to-tape recording of MMT with Beethoven Erotica – one of the best I ever heard. Barry, I can share with you if you’re would like.

Offline Leo K

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 03:13:40 AM »
MTT has one of the most impressive Mahler cycles I've heard.  Each hearing of each work gets better and better to my ears.  He's got a great orchestra and that helps!

--Todd
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 03:15:11 AM by Leo K »

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 05:12:31 AM »
I saw Ozawa many times when I was young. For most repertoire, I liked Ozawa very much. I do think that MTT is very good in most modern music, but the SFSO has cut him waaaay back on modern music. He's also good in French rep., but Ozawa is equally good if not better with the French. After Ozawa, we had Edo De Waart.

In general, De Waart wasn't all that great. But he did have a real knack for Mahler (he's like a more positive, less dour Haitink). De Waart made no attempt to over-streamline the textures of his Mahler, the way MTT consistently does. Anyway, I like De Waart's recorded Mahler cycle very much - certainly far, FAR more than MTT's. After De Waart, we had Herbert Blomstedt. Blomstedt didn't do a lot of Mahler here, but what Mahler he did do, he did very well. To my ears, Blomstedt was a musician's musician. He was also a very friendly and down-to-earth person. Strangely enough, Blomstedt was quite good with modern music. Needless to say, he was great with Nielsen, Sibelius, R. Strauss, Bruckner, and Hindemith, as his Decca recordings give testament to. Then there's Tilson Thomas.

I'm not saying that MTT is the worst conductor to ever hit the planet. But I do believe this: a conductor's personality EVENTUALLY leaks through to the music. I'll allow you to draw your own conclusions from there. For me, MTT started out as a fairly good Mahler conductor. But over time, he has permitted more and more bizarre mannerisms to come through in his, "interpretations". Believe me, I'm not the only person who has noticed this. I've written about it many times, and it is not something that I'm just making up in my head. To me, it sounds as though MTT has decided that he must out Bernstein Bernstein. He starts with the basic Bernstein interpretations of Mahler, then combs the scores to look for new and odd places where he can add his own bizarre brand of crap to pile on top of Bernstein. On top of all that, we in S.F. have had to suffer through a slick publicity machine that would make ANY knowledgeable music listener sick to their stomach. L.A. is mimicking the same kind of machinery with their handling of Dudamel. It's complete nonsense. Anyway, just go through MTT's "interpretation" of Mahler 8 - it's just full of the kind of nonsense that I'm talking about.

I saw MTT do his first M8 in S.F., and it was fabulous. It was a straight forward, no nonsense performance that had a tremendous ending to Part II. Then I noticed that he was changing things the second time he put on M8 in S.F. As a result, it wasn't anywhere as good. This latest go-around has even more MTT-isms to it. On top of all this, I say this too: MTT and the SFSO have pretty much crammed Mahler down everybody's throats here. I know that that's a strange thing to complain about, but as result, MTT and the SFSO have actually managed to turn a lot of local people off to Mahler. How smart is that? You have to understand, they've been repeating Mahler over and over here. To my ears, it's all too slick sounding by half. His Mahler 7th sounded like a Broadway pit band performing a concerto for trumpets. By "Broadway pit band", I mean that it sounded kind of small and overly chamber like. It also just sounded plain slick.

Then, about a year later, I saw Rostroprovich perform Shostakovich 5 with the SFSO. It sounded like an entirely different orchestra - it was like listening to Philly in a good, live performance: HUGE strings; plenty of bass; strong low brass; tangy woodwinds - I couldn't believe that it was the same band. So, I'll leave you good people with this final statement: I think you'd be foolish to pay a ton of money to get the last and final installment in MTT's Mahler, just to get some of the shorter song cycles. For not a whole lot more money, you can get EMI's complete Mahler edition box (with outstanding vocals). You can draw own conclusions from there.

And, by the way, I thought that Zinman's S.F. Mahler 6 was vastly better than MTT's, even though he performed it sans expo. repeat. That was maybe three years before MTT's.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 05:35:24 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2010, 05:29:08 AM »
I want to talk about the Boston situation a bit too. Way back, I warned people that they were crazy to throw a ticker tape parade for Levine in the streets of Boston. What were you people thinking? Levine started having health issues quite a ways back. He's obviously badly out of shape. But more to the point, he's been that way for a long time. Then there's his checkered and not too savory personal history that everybody seems to know all about (even though it's all supposed to be a big secret). Why would folks in Boston want to take on all that baggage? Come to think of it, you have the Red Sox; Celtics (who I like); Bruins, loose canon Catholic priests; the "big diig", and the Patriots - all makes sense now!  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 05:50:07 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Mahler at Tanglewood
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 01:41:27 PM »
>I'm not saying that MTT is the worst conductor to ever hit the planet. But I do believe this: a conductor's personality EVENTUALLY leaks through to the music. I'll allow you to draw your own conclusions from there. For me, MTT started out as a fairly good Mahler conductor. But over time, he has permitted more and more bizarre mannerisms to come through in his, "interpretations".

Agreed 100%. And a guy like Boulez who tries to recreate the score as written by the *composer* gets knocked down by Mahlergeeks because he doesn't inject enough of himself in the performances. Why is that?  He should be commended for it in my view. It's the antithesis of Lenny's raison d'être for this music. Mahler was fanatical regarding his instructions for his music - why not listen to him? It seems to me that Boulez gets slagged WAY more than Lenny for example....

Luckily we have both. Neither cat is wrong, but technically Boulez is right  :D

Barry - I'm not sure if you are an Ives fan or not, but you should hear MTT's Ives 4 with Chicago on Sony sometime. It's from '86 (I think) and the engineering is a bit dated, but he lets LOOSE on this music and plays it the way Ives (most likely) intended. Nothing is glossed over, ever. It's a desert island recording for me.

 

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