Author Topic: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com  (Read 13482 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« on: January 10, 2008, 10:05:33 AM »
I'm fudging a tad by giving this five stars - it's really more a 4.5 for me. But hey, I'm thankful that any major label is still recording the Mahler 8th at this point! For DG, this is a huge improvement over their Abbado M8 recording, but not fully superior to their Sinopoli one. Sinopoli has the stronger female cast, but Boulez has the stronger men; especially the tenor (Johan Botha for Boulez; Keith Lewis for Sinopoli). For anyone who is familiar with Boulez's middle '70s Mahler 8th from the Royal Albert Hall with the BBC Symphony Orch. (it's been floating around on various Italian pirates for years), not much will come as a big surprise here. On the whole, Boulez opts for slower tempi throughout most of Part II. In Part I, Boulez is pretty much up to normal speed, but he takes the ending to Part I at a tempo that's so stately that it's almost beyond belief. I like it very much, but it has the odd effect of making the end of Part 1 seem more grand and important that the ending to Part II (which should be the grand summary of the entire symphony, if not all of western music up to that point!). This is especially true in light of the fact that the series of simultaneous cymbal and tam-tam smashes near the end of the symphony, barely register through the dense sounding Eb Major chord (offstage brass are perfectly audible, however). Still, there's much attention to small detail, as well balances throughout Part II - so much so that the entire symphony comes off as being thoroughly musical, and not just a sequence of pretty filler material that's mostly there to bide one's time between important climaxes.

While Part II was a bit slow to take flight under Boulez (he's like Kent Nagano in that regard), I found the entire passage from the tenor's first big solo - "Hochste Herrscherin der Welt" - up to Una Poentitetium's (Gretchen - same gal) magical appearance some eight minutes later, to be practically spellbinding. That said, the almost Wagnerian sounding orchestal passages near the start of Part II have far more intensity here than they do under Nagano. That in itself is a testament to the fine and idiomatic playing of the Staatskapelle Berlin. After that excellent middle section, I found the passage work for the three penitant women to be a tad droopy under Boulez, if also well detailed. And speaking of details, one that I really appreciate is that Boulez used a true harmonium (chamber organ) wherever Mahler called for one, thus making a strong contrast to the big concert organ. Anyway, following those penitant women, things hit their stride again with an outstanding "blicket auf" passage, with Botha sounding even better here than he did previously. The slower than normal tempo for the symphony's ending might not be to everyone's taste either, but I prefer it to being too fast (Solti, Bernstein, and Tennstedt - I hate to say!)

I also very much like the very start of the symphony here. The tempo is just right - not too fast; not too slow. The amount of organ is also just right - not too little, but not too much either. A previous reviewer complained of excessive bass eminating from the organ. On my system, it didn't overbalance everything else. Since this is the first Mahler recording to have been made in the excellent acoustics of Berlin's Jesus Christus Kirche since the much celebrated Karajan Mahler 5th came out in the early 1970s, I suspect that an electronic organ was being employed - at least for the lower end of the organ's spectrum. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste, but I didn't find it excessive. In fact, I'm very pleasantly surprised by just how good DG's sound is here - for once.

So, with this fine finale to Boulez's decade long Mahler cycle (over a decade, really), can we finally bury the much celebrated Solti Mahler 8th once and for all? Well, not really, as they're nearly polar opposites. Even if I find it more technically polished than moving, the Solti still has an excellent cast throughout (Kubelik has an even stronger cast). But Boulez certainly has the more interesting details, and he takes his time to smell those roses along the way as well.

Vatz Relham

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2008, 04:41:39 PM »
Thanks for the review Barry, having never heard the 70's live pirate, I was a bit surprised by Boulez' slower tempo's, I was expecting the performance on one disc, with the same kind of treatment as his M2 which I like overall or similar to Rattle's very good M8, but this new M8 is a real pleasure to listen too, I think your review pretty much sums up how I feel about it also, and agreed that Boulez really brings out the Wagner in Part II.

Vatz

Offline Russell

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008, 04:51:30 PM »
Nice review, Barry.  About the organ, I remember seeing reference to a "digital organ" in the booklet (look at the recording credits).  I agree that the sound quality is quite fine, especially for DG.

Russell

Offline John Kim

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008, 07:05:50 PM »
Thanks, Barry.

But I am still somewhat bothered by the weak organ in the coda to Part II. although it is quite audible in Part I.

John,

Offline Leo K

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 05:17:56 PM »
Great review Barry...I think I'll listen to this wonder M8 again!


--Todd

Offline John Kim

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 10:34:56 PM »
Thanks, Barry.

But I am still somewhat bothered by the weak organ in the coda to Part II. although it is quite audible in Part I.

John,
I was wrong about the organ. I've been listening to Boulez M8th lately and am very satisfied with the organ sound. It's there from the beginning to the end whenever it's called by the score, but you need to boost the bass as the organ sometimes comes out on a very low octave.

It is an excellent M8th, one of the best Boulez has done in his Mahler cycle.

I particularly like the ending of Part I. where Boulez slows down the speed in order let all the polyphonic lines to come out clearly without the normal congestion heard in other recordings. This is a Boulez stamp that he put whenever he conducted M8th in the past.

John
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:41:39 PM by John Kim »

Offline Leo K

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 12:11:17 AM »
Thanks, Barry.

But I am still somewhat bothered by the weak organ in the coda to Part II. although it is quite audible in Part I.

John,
I was wrong about the organ. I've been listening to Boulez M8th lately and am very satisfied with the organ sound. It's there from the beginning to the end whenever it's called by the score, but you need to boost the bass as the organ sometimes comes out on a very low octave.

It is an excellent M8th, one of the best Boulez has done in his Mahler cycle.

I particularly like the ending of Part I. where Boulez slows down the speed in order let all the polyphonic lines to come out clearly without the normal congestion heard in other recordings. This is a Boulez stamp that he put whenever he conducted M8th in the past.

John

John,

Thanks for reminding me that I want to revist this M8 again!

-Todd

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 05:26:07 AM »
It's a very musical Mahler 8th, and Johan Botha is truly one of the better tenors to have tackled that difficult part. I do think that the ending to Part II is a bit anti-climactic in comparison to the end of Part I (which is stunning, as indicated). It needs more tam-tam, and it needs a bit more organ. Still, this is a Mahler 8th I can just enjoy listening to. That said, I like the Zinman even better (which has an almost lousy tenor).

Offline pgmdir

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 08:29:33 PM »
Zinman's, to me, is the best of his cycle.  I have the Sinopoli, the Boulez, Bernstein (Sony), Gergiev, Nagano, Gielen, Horenstein with the BBC, probably one or two others hiding someplace.  Zinman has risen to the top for me, but I'm heading home from work and will immediately put the Boulez on, based on these posts. 

Bill

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
I don't want to get your hopes up too high, but it's well worth hearing. I like the new remastering of the Rattle 8th also - great organ!

Offline pgmdir

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2010, 02:35:14 AM »
I'm afraid that I must continue my previous thought that this Mahler 8 is far from my fave----  It's certainly fine in many ways.  I want to add that Boulez' M5 is my favorite 5, but, so far, the Zinman M8 is reigning supreme here....  Wonderful recording, excellent organ.  I will admit that M8 is apparently the hardest for me to like for whatever reason.  I certainly have enough of them.  There's a certain harshness to the recording on Boulez that was not sitting well for M8.

Desert Island cycles (forgetting indivudual favorites):  Gielen, Boulez,Zinman, Bernstein (CBS-Sony).

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2010, 02:48:16 AM »
yes, I very much like the Zinman M8. I'm a real Mahler 8 junkie, so it's difficult for me to narrow down to just one choice. The Gerard Schwarz/Seattle S.O. M8 is a real sleeper too. Scott, our moderator, really likes the Inbal one from Japan (Exton). Thanks for sharing.

Barry

Offline John Kim

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2010, 05:10:31 PM »
As fine as the Zinman may be, I'd put the Boulez ahead of it. The playing is better, and Boulez's tight control of the huge Part II. and the fantastic retardando near the end of Part I. are hard to beat. The organ and recording sound are pretty darn good too.

John,

Offline John Kim

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 08:09:21 PM »
This is a question for Barry:

On disc 2, track 16 @ 3:55 how come I don't hear timpani?

In all other recordings I own there is the timpani rolling at that spot and it's clearly audible, so I am curious what edition Boulez used.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 09:10:31 PM »
I'll check it out when I have time. It's probably just a counting mistake (missed entrance).

 

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