Reunion w/ Abbado/VPO/DG M9

[barry guerrero]

After I've been so nasty?    .    .    .   sure, I wish; I wish.

It's not that I truly dislike the Vienna Phil. Instead, I just get tired of people - and I'm not saying that you're doing this - claiming that they have some special inside track as to how Mahler should sound. Remember, Mahler premiered absolutely ZERO of his symphonies with the VPO (maybe the 4th?    .    .    .  actually, I think the 4th was premiered in Munich). In truth, he had a sort of love/hate "thang" with that orchestra. Obviously, there are some things that they do marvelously. But their constant hanging on to old "traditions" also drove Mahler crazy. Von Karajan felt very much the same way, actually. I also get tired of some folks yammering on about how "cold" or unidiomatic Boulez's Mahler is . For the most part, I feel that he has really gotten the Vienna Phil. to play Mahler in a more balanced, more idiomatic fashion (I know, "gotten" ain't no real word). During the Abbado period, and before, the VPO horns were always so loud and gorgeous sounding. But their stopped horn playing - featured very prominently throughout the first three movements of M9 - really lagged behind that of other orchestras. It's that old indigenous, Viennese single F-horn business. Their trombone playing was often times a tad on the weak side as well (but better, these days). Anyway   .    .    . 

[John Kim]

Barry.

What about VPO playing Bruckner?

I think they are TERRIFIC Bruckner players, no question about that. Bohm/VPO B3, B4, B7, B8, Mehta B4, B9, Schuricht B8 & B9 are second to none. Even Boulez's latest B8th with this orchestra is pretty darn good.

I think a part of the reason why you don't think very high of VPO's Mahler is because they have not yet met with a truly great Mahler conductor (except for Lenny with whom they made videos and two very fine recordings, M5th and M6th). Maazel? Abbado? Then, Rattle and Boulez? That's about all they got so far. If Lenny had stayed in Vienna for his entire second Mahler cycle, we (you) might have thought differently. I am pretty sure that someone like Kobayashi or Inoue might have turned VPO into a great Mahler orchestra. Let's wait and see how Harding's VPO M10 will turn out.

John,

[barry guerrero]

Yes, John - by and large, they're an excellent Bruckner orchestra. But what makes them very good at Bruckner, doesn't necessarily translate when playing Mahler. They're extremely different composers. I think that Boulez has made great strides in getting the VPO to producer a somerwhat leaner and clearer sound in Mahler. Undoubtedly, part of that is just improved technology on the part of DG. But I also agree that Bernstein got the best Mahler results from the VPO of anybody.

Barry

[Leo K]

Yes, I really like Boulez's Mahler...with the VPO and with the other orchestra's he has recorded with, especially his M4 with the Cleveland (I kinda wish he did more Mahler with this orchestra...it's a wonderful orchestra) and his M2 with the Berlin Staatskapelle.

--Todd

[Leo K]

I want to add that in Boulez's Cleveland M4, the horn is so exquisite in the Scherzo, so exciting to listen to...


--Todd