gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: stillivor on May 07, 2012, 08:44:50 AM
-
Just found this marvellous talk to young people from 1960!, introducing Mahler. Bernstein is your guide. [Wish telly was like this today]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJeRlfibzcs&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LL-T5raEzGrVpGL8S5JmaXqQ
He doesn't/can't cover everything. Nevertheless lots of good stuff, irrespective of questions of interpretation, finely delivered. Quite free of the patronising.
Ivor
-
This was one of the many (and one of the earliest) Young People's Concerts that Bernstein gave with the NYPO. This one appears with the Kultur multi-DVD set of about half (I think) of those concerts that Bernstein gave. This set contains the best concerts of that series.
At the end of the concert, soprano Reri Grist sings the final movement Wunderhorn song of M4. She is also soloist on Bernstein's Columbia/Sony Masterworks recording. It is great to see her sing the song as well as to hear her in the aforementioned recording. She is the daughter of soprano Desi Halban, who was soloist in Bruno Walter's 1947 NYPO recording.
Incidentally, this particular concert was probably the first one that was recorded on the new invention of videotape. Previous concerts were recorded as kinescopes, which utilized a movie camera filming the show directly from a TV monitor.
Wade
-
I love the Young People's Concerts! I am a huge fan of Bernstein and they introduced me to composers whose music I hadn't ever heard before or hadn't really taken seriously, like Debussy and Sibelius. I wish they had programming like this now. There isn't a lot of exposure to the arts for kids these days and it's a shame.
-
"They" being the Young People's Concerts :)
-
I certainly agree, Aaron.
We (meaning all of today's music lovers, and especially young people) are missing so much in the lack of programs such as Bernstein's.
Apart from the wonderful folks here at the GMB, I find very few really serious music lovers--even at concerts.
The masses are missing out on so much.
C
-
It's interesting to see how in the past. before movies and TV, the thing to do was to go to the concert hall or the opera house and see live music. It was such a big part of the public psyche. Unfortunetely, young people don't get exposure to music, or should I say good music, like they used to. I am biased however, I am studying for a degree in music education ;)
-
I certainly agree, Aaron.
We (meaning all of today's music lovers, and especially young people) are missing so much in the lack of programs such as Bernstein's.
Apart from the wonderful folks here at the GMB, I find very few really serious music lovers--even at concerts.
The masses are missing out on so much.
C
Michael Tilson Thomas seems (or at least is trying) to take over where Bernstein left off. If you take Tilson Thomas' program on Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique and compare it with Bernstein's Young People's Concert program on the same work ("Berlioz Takes a Trip"), there's no comparison. Though Tilson Thomas has the advantage of going on-site to the places where Berlioz grew up as a composer, and discusses the Symphonie Fantastique in depth, he doesn't possess the spontaneity that Bernstein does. Also, the same thing happens with the two men's programs on Mahler. Bernstein accomplishes so much more in one hour with Mahler as a composer than Tilson Thomas does in two, and though much had to be left out in both men's programs, I felt that there were more loose ends with Tilson Thomas than with Bernstein.
Wade
-
The thing about Bernstein is that while he was an amazing musician and conductor, he was first and foremost a teacher. It's obvious when you watch the Young People's Concerts or the Norton lecture series that he truly wanted to share music and help students of any age be changed and enriched by it.
-
Agreed. An incredibly versatile and chameleon like musician - equally comfortable in all the great cities of the world.
-
Great point made by Aaron and Barry: that Bernstein was first and foremost a TEACHER! (and this is especially "on topic" regarding "Mahler for beginners.")
Lenny frequently gets "a bad rap" for always making himself part of the performance.
But speaking at least from my experience of many years in teaching, a good teacher must always become a part of the learning experience, must be involved in it, interacting with students.
Most of those reading this will remember Lenny's comments during a Mahler rehearsal, in which he states that the ideal Mahler conductor would merely bury his nose in the score, for Mahler has included all that is needed. Lenny continues speaking of how whenever he questions how to play or conduct a particular Mahler passage, he simply looks at the score, and finds Mahler has specified how he wants it done.
Then, Bernstein continues, explaining why he becomes so emotional, saying that he just loves the music so much that he can't help himself--he has to try to have the orchestra and the audience hear and feel the things he loves so much about Mahler's music. Don't we feel this way when we hear Mahler?!
So whatever you think of Bernstein, please remember him as the loving teacher, wishing the very best for his students--whether they are musicians or an audience.
His Young Peoples Concerts are a wonderful "love letter" he has left to his students.
--Constantin
-
Mahler is not for children.
SB
-
Mahler is not for children.
SB
Oh, great comment!
Yes, it's true that Mahler deals with emotions that nearly all children are not yet mature enough to handle. Even many adults have trouble dealing with the emotions and meaning in Mahler's music.
Perhaps some of the simpler melodies (if this is possible) of M1 might be suitable for children or other beginners. I think it might be advisable to avoid dealing with words and meaning until later.
What do others think on this great topic of "Mahler is not for children?"
-
Mahler is not for children.
SB
But Leonard Bernstein handled the touchy subject of Mahler very well with the kids in his Young People's Concert. Better than most anyone else could have done.
Wade
-
The thing about Bernstein is that while he was an amazing musician and conductor, he was first and foremost a teache
[/quote]
I have just discovered his lectures at Harvard. Captivating!
-
"Mahler is not for children"
I totally disagree with that thought. Children, like animals, have little or no resistance to what they're exposed to. I've never seen an animal leave a room because Mahler was on. But more to the point, I'm opposed to the almost pandering, "don't teach them to swim in the deep end of the pool", attitude towards what's appropriate for children. I was raised an only child and my parents treated me as though I were another adult in the room. When I got to school, I had almost no idea what a children's story was. As a result, I was bored by them. While my parents certainly didn't play Mahler symphonies, I was totally comfortable with Beethoven, Sinatra, Dave Brubeck, Peggy Lee and other things that are allegedly for adults only. I knew Tom Leher and Johnathon Winters albums - even if I didn't get ALL of the jokes. Sure, I liked some Disney stories and Disney music, but I was just as comfortable with what my parents collected. I don't think it would have been much different with Mahler.
-
I agree with Barry. I don't think many people give kids enough credit. My 9 year old sister, for example, loves all things classical music. I gave her my old iPod for Christmas loaded with mastic and her favorite "song" on it is the Toscanini and NBC Symphony recording on the Pines of Rome. Kids only know what try are taught as I feel that we people spent more time believing in kids, try would be pleasantly surprised by the results.
-
Yeah, if you tell a child that something's too difficult or too adult, then of course they're probably not going to take to it. I hate it when I see parents spoon feeding their children with nothing but volumes of, 'for kids' reading and viewing material, etc.
-
Of course it is good for children to be exposed and led to varied styles of music including Mahler's if they are interested in.
What I meant by this elliptic "Mahler is not for children" is that many aspects of his music like for example ambiguity and second degree are IMO hardly accessible to young minds.
SB
-
Of course it is good for children to be exposed and led to varied styles of music including Mahler's if they are interested in.
What I meant by this elliptic "Mahler is not for children" is that many aspects of his music like for example ambiguity and second degree are IMO hardly accessible to young minds.
SB
Wow!--you certainly nailed that one!
Very rare are children who can understand ambiguity and irony or sarcasm.
Barry is also quite right that we should not "spoon-feed" children only pabulum and bland, boring, too simplistic music.
Dr. Bruno Bettleheim in his tome, "The Meaning and Uses of Enchantment," comments on how today's children have been allowed only to read "cleaned--up" fairy tales. Well-meaning adults wished to avoid having them be frightened by the terrors of death, starvation, or the loss of a parent. Thus they have been deprived of a relatively safe way of confronting these fears.
Mahler's music includes such "scary" and many beautiful images too. If children are exposed to it, they can take it for what they are capable of understanding. They will probably not understand the ambiguity or irony. Perhaps they will even learn that age and experience can lead them to appreciate something more each time they hear it.
When I first heard Mahler, I was dazzled by the imagery--beautiful, powerful, and sometimes frightening.
Then later, when curiosity led me to follow closely THE WORDS, I came to appreciate better the philosophical and spiritual nature of Mahler's works.
We are all children...still learning.
This is life. Let us enjoy the adventure!
-
Interesting footnote.
So Reri Grist was Desi Halban's daughter. Interesting because Desi was the daughter of Mahler's girl-friend Selma Kurz.
Ivor