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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: John Kim on February 12, 2010, 05:26:02 PM
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Last night I've listened to Maazel's live recording of M9th with NYPO.
I've listened to the first three movts. so far but can safely declare that it is superb.
Compared to his VPO version this one is miles ahead, a really huge improvement. Now his interpretation doesn't sound disjointed anymore; all the transitions are beautifully and seamlessly done. He still takes many risks, especially with slow tempos (1st movt. clocks at 32 min) and rubatos but it all pays off nicely. And this time he obeys the Pesante instruction at the climax of I. NYPO plays with a world class ensemble and professionalism. This may well be the most colorful and virtuosic M9th in that the brass, woodwinds, and strings all show off extraordinary playing skills but also mix together with brilliant colors and characters. The RB particularly is to die for; never before I heard the brass and woodwinds at display with such extravagance, exuberance, and dizzyingly colorful timbres.
Alas, I wish they had recorded it in a regular CD or SACD format. As it is, it's available only as a download form from NYPO website.
But it certainly deserves to be available in better sound quality.
It gets my 5 stars voting!
John,
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Last night I've listened to Maazel's live recording of M9th with NYPO.
Alas, I wish they had recorded it in a regular CD or SACD format. As it is, it's available only as a download form from NYPO website.
But it certainly deserves to be available in better sound quality.
John,
Your wish is granted. The live Maazel/NYPO M9 download is available from HDTracks in uncompressed AIFF (Apple) and lossless FLAC files, as well as standard MP3; all three formats are the same price: $11.98. The first two should have the same audio quality as a standard CD.
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=844185073158
All of the other Maazel/NYPO Mahler symphony downloads are similarly available, and the Eighth is even offered as a 24/96 FLAC (SACD quality).
James
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I've sent them an urgent request for CD or SACD releases of all the recordings in the Maazel/NYPO Mahler cycle.
This M9th is really something I've never expected Maazel could have done but did.
If you like a slow but powerful and expressive M9th, this is definitely for you.
It's that good :o.
John,
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Thanks for the review John...this is in my shopping cart on iTunes and now I think I'll get it.
;D
--Todd
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Sadly, I listened to this via Rhapsody earlier in the week, and I found it waaaaaaaay too slow. The playing is phenomenal, but there's not much "there" there. I love the sound of several of the New York Philharmonic principal players, but that wasn't enough to overcome the static tempos. In fairness, my listening was done via tiny computer speakers, but I would encourage some sampling before taking the plunge. If this were on vinyl, I'd be checking the pitch control to make sure the speed was set correctly.
I was unfamiliar with Rhapsody.com, but they give you 25 free samples, which give you plenty of movements to listen to. Sprawling movements, like M3:I or M9:I still count as one listen. On the downside, I imagine that M8, with its multiple tracks, would eat up lots of listening. I wanted to like this, but afterwards, I found myself unwilling to purchase a single symphony from this set.
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Sadly, I listened to this via Rhapsody earlier in the week, and I found it waaaaaaaay too slow. The playing is phenomenal, but there's not much "there" there. I love the sound of several of the New York Philharmonic principal players, but that wasn't enough to overcome the static tempos. In fairness, my listening was done via tiny computer speakers, but I would encourage some sampling before taking the plunge. If this were on vinyl, I'd be checking the pitch control to make sure the speed was set correctly.
I was unfamiliar with Rhapsody.com, but they give you 25 free samples, which give you plenty of movements to listen to. Sprawling movements, like M3:I or M9:I still count as one listen. On the downside, I imagine that M8, with its multiple tracks, would eat up lots of listening. I wanted to like this, but afterwards, I found myself unwilling to purchase a single symphony from this set.
I certainly understand your reaction. But when there are multiple versions out there that take the symphony as slow as Maazel does here, e.g., Giulini, Bernstein, Levine, Maazel's certainly doesn't come as a shock. True, the first 5 min. or so is very slow, so slow that it feels as if the music is about to stall. But once you get past the part his conducting picks up, culminating in the stunning first climax. Eventually, you become aware of the cumulative power that has been piled up. More importantly, no matter how slow the music gets Maazel's never loses forest for trees (he did in the VPO recording) and maintains a very cogent reading throughout the movement.
John,
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Thanks for the heads-up, John.
I'm enamoured by the Maazel M2, but it seems to have flown under most folks radar in these parts.
Have you heard it John?
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Thanks for the heads-up, John.
I'm enamoured by the Maazel M2, but it seems to have flown under most folks radar in these parts.
Have you heard it John?
Not yet, but I do know that Maazel has always been good to excellent in M2nd (I heard his VPO and BRSO recordings). So, I shall try this one soon. In fact, I am interested in getting the entire cycle. But I need to know the sound is good. Is it?
John,
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I only have Maazel/NYP M2 and M3, and the sound is pretty killer in both.
The organ at the end of M2 will shake your walls and the brass/percussion are deep and very powerful.
I can ask my friend about the others, as he bought the whole cycle and loves it. I was quite skeptical at first, but after hearing M2 and M3, I would like to check out most/all of them.
Glad your're diggin' M9! I love that piece.
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I only have Maazel/NYP M2 and M3, and the sound is pretty killer in both.
In what format were your files??
John,
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AIFF - cd quality.
Don't screw around with 320 kbps mp3's when you can D/L the real deal - it just takes up more space.
But that is what a 1 terrabyte HD is for! ;D
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The new Maazel M9 is incredible...I am blown away. I was overjoyed to hear the inspiration of the middle movements...what character and detail! What humor and madness! Ususally these movements are more or less a waystation between the 1st and last movements, but here they command my attention just as much. My top M9's have fantastic middle movements and this recording is no exception.
In this performance the 1st and last movements are sublime. The string sound is as enjoyable as the recent Rattle and Oue...and the brass and percussion jump out...listen to those timpani!
I look forward to downloading (iTunes) the M6 tonight. Eventually I'll get the whole cycle.
--Todd
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You know, I will place this recording among my 5 top choices (upon hearing in a better format, I might place it even higher):
Bernstein/RCO/DG
Levine/PO/RCA
Oue/NDR/Exton
Ozawa/BSO/Philips
Maazel/NYPO/NYPO
Maazel is very faithful to the score. For instance, in I. there is no Pesante or a like at the second climax and he is one of few who observes it. Except for "Etwas Frischer (somewhat livelier)" there is NO sign to speed up at the start of the first one, i.e., the fanfare-like passage that leads to the development section. MOST conductors, e.g., Abbado, Barenboim, just rush from the start, but Maazel waits until the Ewig motif is uttered in the brass and from that point on gradually picks up the speed all the way to the climax. Along with the Ozawa, Maazel is best in the passage marked "Leidenschaftlich" (passionately) that follows the second allegro-like climax, in which the doom leaden second theme is varied in different forms in strings. In my memory, nobody comes close in terms of the vigor, intensity, and grim bitterness in this passage.
Overall, the ebb and flow that Maazel imbues throughout the whole movt. is just incredible.
John,
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Those are more excellant observations John...thanks for pointing that out!
I notice that Maazel's new M9 has a strong "line" of nuance and control that appears to connect the whole work, every ebb and flow makes sense and collects this huge structure together quite dramatically and convincingly (to me).
--Todd
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Sadly, I listened to this via Rhapsody earlier in the week, and I found it waaaaaaaay too slow. The playing is phenomenal, but there's not much "there" there. I love the sound of several of the New York Philharmonic principal players, but that wasn't enough to overcome the static tempos. In fairness, my listening was done via tiny computer speakers, but I would encourage some sampling before taking the plunge. If this were on vinyl, I'd be checking the pitch control to make sure the speed was set correctly.
I was unfamiliar with Rhapsody.com, but they give you 25 free samples, which give you plenty of movements to listen to. Sprawling movements, like M3:I or M9:I still count as one listen. On the downside, I imagine that M8, with its multiple tracks, would eat up lots of listening. I wanted to like this, but afterwards, I found myself unwilling to purchase a single symphony from this set.
I certainly understand your reaction. But when there are multiple versions out there that take the symphony as slow as Maazel does here, e.g., Giulini, Bernstein, Levine, Maazel's certainly doesn't come as a shock. True, the first 5 min. or so is very slow, so slow that it feels as if the music is about to stall. But once you get past the part his conducting picks up, culminating in the stunning first climax. Eventually, you become aware of the cumulative power that has been piled up. More importantly, no matter how slow the music gets Maazel's never loses forest for trees (he did in the VPO recording) and maintains a very cogent reading throughout the movement.
John,
Bernstein rarely feels slow to me. I manage to get swept away by it all. I picked up the Levine on lp, and while it is slow, it does have contrast. (But the pressing is terrible. That one needs a better remastering.) However, with the Maazel, I just kept thinking the only contrast was between slow and slower. I confess that my listening situation was probably far from ideal via tiny laptop speakers for an extended duration. Yet I walked away loving Wit's M8 on Naxos listening under the same circumstances a few months ago.
For me, Maazel's best work was his earlier stuff, like his Berlin Brahms 3rd, and Beethoven 5 and 6. I really wish that mind would've tackled Mahler back then. But the amazing thing about all of this is we all have a different opinion, and mine will change over time. I'm just glad we even GET all these choices!
I would like to give Gilbert's M3 a try. The New York Philharmonic has always been one of my favorite orchestras, and we'll see what that one yields.
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Sadly, I listened to this via Rhapsody earlier in the week, and I found it waaaaaaaay too slow. The playing is phenomenal, but there's not much "there" there. I love the sound of several of the New York Philharmonic principal players, but that wasn't enough to overcome the static tempos. In fairness, my listening was done via tiny computer speakers, but I would encourage some sampling before taking the plunge. If this were on vinyl, I'd be checking the pitch control to make sure the speed was set correctly.
I was unfamiliar with Rhapsody.com, but they give you 25 free samples, which give you plenty of movements to listen to. Sprawling movements, like M3:I or M9:I still count as one listen. On the downside, I imagine that M8, with its multiple tracks, would eat up lots of listening. I wanted to like this, but afterwards, I found myself unwilling to purchase a single symphony from this set.
I certainly understand your reaction. But when there are multiple versions out there that take the symphony as slow as Maazel does here, e.g., Giulini, Bernstein, Levine, Maazel's certainly doesn't come as a shock. True, the first 5 min. or so is very slow, so slow that it feels as if the music is about to stall. But once you get past the part his conducting picks up, culminating in the stunning first climax. Eventually, you become aware of the cumulative power that has been piled up. More importantly, no matter how slow the music gets Maazel's never loses forest for trees (he did in the VPO recording) and maintains a very cogent reading throughout the movement.
John,
Bernstein rarely feels slow to me. I manage to get swept away by it all. I picked up the Levine on lp, and while it is slow, it does have contrast. (But the pressing is terrible. That one needs a better remastering.) However, with the Maazel, I just kept thinking the only contrast was between slow and slower. I confess that my listening situation was probably far from ideal via tiny laptop speakers for an extended duration. Yet I walked away loving Wit's M8 on Naxos listening under the same circumstances a few months ago.
For me, Maazel's best work was his earlier stuff, like his Berlin Brahms 3rd, and Beethoven 5 and 6. I really wish that mind wouldn't tackled Mahler back then. But the amazing thing about all of this is we all have a different opinion, and mine will change over time. I'm just glad we even GET all these choices!
I would like to give Gilbert's M3 a try. The New York Philharmonic has always been one of my favorite orchestras, and we'll see what that one yields.
Gilbert's NYPO M3 is absolutely incredible...it is among my top M3's right now...I only wish it would be released in better sound.
--Todd
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However, with the Maazel, I just kept thinking the only contrast was between slow and slower.
IMO, this pretty much describes Maazel's Mahler to a T. However, I have his NYPO M2 and M9 cued up to go in my car, so I am not completely closed-minded! :P
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Scott,
Open up your mind and ears :D ;).
You'll experience a new Maazel who is wholly on the wave length of Mahler's music.
John,
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This Maazel M9 is just amazing...tonight it took me to another world...a doom laden dream world of sadness and loss.
--Todd
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Ditto.
But I am afraid the NYPO may sound just a little too 'over confident' and 'arrogant' to some ears, because they are so virtuosic and confident in this concert
John,