Lenny-like Interpretations with terrific SQ

[merlin]

For me, Lenny still reigns supreme in Mahler.  His passion for the music and ability to wring out every drop of emotion are unsurpassed.

However, due to basically inferior recording capabilities, compared with today, the SQ on most of his CDs leaves lots to be desired.  No matter how many re-masterings (even the latest DSD of the Columbia recordings), one cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so to speak.

For example, his M2/NYPO (DGG 2005) compared with Fischer/BFO -- the SQ of the latter is amazing, but I find the performance boring in too many places.

So, are there interpreters (or versions) that come close to Lenny, but which are recorded with outstanding SQ (preferably SACD)?

[Constantin]

I wish to "second" Merlin's comment and question.
For all the criticism of Bernstein's making himself "part of the show," few can deny that he felt a great passion for the uniqueness of Mahler's music.
SQ/SACD aside, I look forward to reading others' opinions as to what conductors today approach Bernstein's passion and appreciation for Mahler.
May I submit Abbado?  Perhaps he's not as showy as Bernstein, but in his own quiet way, he burns with the same love for Mahler.

[John Kim]

Tennstedt??

To me Tennstedt comes closest to being Lenny in better sound.

Details in his interpretation may be somewhat different but he is pretty darn close to Lenny in his spirit and passion for Mahler.

[barry guerrero]

Tennstedt hasn't been well recorded, and the playing the LPO isn't always the best. I would suggest Gary Bertini. He falls half-way between Bernstein and Boulez, but retains the better aspects of Bernstein's conducting traits in Mahler. His cycle is also very well recorded. I would also submit Chailly/Concertgebouw for your consideration.

[Prospero]

Tennstedt could provide life-changing performances, ones in which recorded sound is only secondary. I heard a live Mahler 6 with the LPO in April 1983 that was the greatest orchestral concert of my life.

Of interest are some well recorded Tennstedt performances with American orchestras that are hard to find but of great value. There is a live NYPO Mahler 6 from about 1988 and a Philadelphia 7  and 9 that are startling in performance and better sound than the Royal Festival Hall versions or the studio ones.

Still, the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life.

While good recorded sound is important in Mahler, it is not the be all and end all. Consider the Walter live 9 and DLvdE from Vienna in the 30s.

For a recent example of marvelous sound and performance I recommend the Barbirolli Mahler 5 on Esoteric the fine SACD issue just becoming avaialble.

Tom in Vermont

[barry guerrero]

"Consider the Walter live 9 and DLvdE from Vienna in the 30s."

We'll have to agree to disagree on half of this. Walter never approved of the 1938 M9 recording, and I feel it's pretty much a travesty. IMHO, this is a case of taking interest in a historical event for the all the wrong reasons, including musical. The "DLvdE" with Kirsten Thorberg is much better - so much so, that I believe it's superior to the famous Decca '50s one with Ferrier. I don't think that the two can be equated as being the same, in terms of quality. Either way, I feel that Walter's Columbia remakes are superior in nearly every respect, except maybe for the vocalists involved.

[Ben]

Have you listened to any of the Mahler recordings by Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony?  They are all SACD and in good sound.  MTT has his detractors, but if you're looking for something on the "Bernstein" side of the interpretive spectrum, you may check his recordings out.

Can you be more specific on what you like about the Bernstein, and what was boring about the Fischer?  I'm also a big fan of Bernstein, so I'm curious what draws you in.  I assume you like the more "interventionist" approach to his conducting, but that could be a wrong assumption.

I'd have to agree with Barry that Tennstedt/LPO may not be what you're looking for.  The playing of the LPO leaves much to be desired sometimes.  He does however have a recording of M1 with the Chicago Symphony.  It's a very long recording (about 60 minutes) and the brass go nuts at the end of the symphony.

I've been enjoying the Manfred Honeck/Pittsburgh Symphony Mahler releases.  Both the M1 and M3 are fantastic, IMHO.  Great sound quality SACDs, the orchestra plays superbly, and I think Honeck has a great feel for Mahler.

Perhaps you would want to check out some of Christoph Eschenbach's recordings.  He's not exactly my cup of tea, but he certainly imposes his will on the Mahler scores.  I think he's over the top often times, but he might be worth checking out as well.

[merlin]

Have not listened to MTT, but read LOTS of reviews, both here and at sa-cd.net.  A mixed bag....

What I love about Lenny is his total involvement with the music, and all the emotions and feelings he evokes.  I mostly experience that he is conducting as Mahler might have.  Music, for me, is a living reality, and therefore approaches and interpretations often change, just like so-called real life.

The "intellectuals" do not make it for me in Mahler, with their analytical and distant approach (e.g. Boulez, Chailly).

I listened to M2 yesterday afternoon (the DGG version from 2005 with NYPO), and realized two things.  First, after not listening to Mahler for almost three years, it took some time for me to enter his soundscape, so to speak.  Second, turning up the volume seemed to increase the SQ.

Also, these re-masters are better than the M9/BPO, which I listened to later in the evening.

I will try to borrow a copy of MTT M2, M3 or M6 on SACD, if possible.  No sense purchasing same without an audition.

And as I wrote, the SQ on Fischer/BFO is incredible, but the interpretation in many parts left me wanting much, much more.  Lenny provides exactly that.

Also, growing up in NYC and attending a number of his concerts, as well as watching his tv programs, interviews, and such, gave me a sense of knowing the man personally, and a great appreciation for his approach to music.

[barry guerrero]

So why not just keep your Bernstein ones and not worry about it? I don't really quite agree with pideon-holing someone like Chailly as an "intellectural", but that's really beside the point. My problem with MTT's cycle is that it's sort of a bad attempt to out-Bernstein Bernstein. Many of his so-called original, interpretative ideas just strike me as mannered and musically lame. I think Mahler's music is strong enough on its own, so that I would much rather hear somebody do the music 'straight' and really well, than to hear somebody who's an 'original' and musicallyl - often times - a turkey. That's just me.

To me, the problem with Boulez isn't that he's an 'intellectual', but rather that he's not intellectual enough in some regards (or spots) that he chooses to ignore. But by and large, I would take him over Tilson Thomas any day.

The whole problem with this conversation is that we're all trying to distill everything down to just one conductor. When that happens, a bunch of tired cliches get tossed about. I not only think that there's  no need to do that, I think it's not healthy. For example, I feel that both Boulez and Chailly have really good recordings of M3 and M4, but not M2 (except for Chailly's Leipzig dvd of M2). If you want a really great cycle that isn't 'Lenny', then I think you really need to pick and choose, and I think you really need to do it on your own - find what works for you. However, IF having to stick to just one conductor is a requirement, then I will once again throw Bertini's name into the ring.

Bertini not may not have 'the best' recording of any particular Mahler symphony, but his cycle has an amazing consistency that most of the others simply do not possess. He has much of the same sort of innate feel and connection to Mahler's music as Bernstein had, but he tempers himself enough to not jump around all over the podium and become the show himself. He isn't constantly trying to whip the orchestra into a state of frenzy and keeps more of a long-range game plan in mind. Maybe that would strike you as being a bit too 'intellectural', but I don't feel that way about him at all. As I said, I think he falls right in between Bernstein and Boulez - and with the better aspects of both men.

[merlin]

Thanks very much, Barry, for your cogent and insightful response.  

I will definitely listen again to the non-Lenny recordings I have (e.g. M2 Fischer/BFO, M3 Horenstein/LSO, M6 Zinman/Tonhalle), and be on the lookout for highly-regarded other versions of various symphonies.

Although, for now, I still rate Bernstein as the best, I went ahead and ordered the Bertini box.  It cost $37.74 including airmail shipping from MDT, about $3.50 per disc!

[Prospero]

The Walter Columbia M9 is a great one. So, I agree with Barry there.

But Tennstedt has some remarkable performances that can be overwhelming. I would not want to set him aside merely on sound reservations.