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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: hrandall on October 09, 2015, 03:12:50 PM
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Hello fellow Mahlerites :-) I need your advice.
Every Thursday evening I meet with one or two friends and we listen to a Mahler symphony. Lately we've been doing something interesting. For 3 or 4 weeks in a row we listen to the same symphony but I select recordings that illustrate very different interpretations. We've just completed a series for M5 and M2. We decided to tackle the Seventh next.
And that's why I want your help. I'd like to pick 3 or 4 recordings that show different approaches to this symphony. What would you suggest? I'd like to highlight one recording that illustrates Barry's idea of the 7th being a darkness to light bridge between the 6th and 8th. Maybe Barenboim is good for that? I'd also like to play one that reviewers typically call "episodic" - any thoughts on a good example that shows that approach?
Anyway, I'd love to hear your arguments for what are the ideal recordings to illustrate different approaches to the symphony and why. Ideally we'll have 3 or 4 different sessions to hear and compare these recordings with my friends.
I own a pretty good sampling of the available recordings, the most common ones and quite a few less known. For the sake of this exercise, let's assume I have or can get access to any of the recommendations you might have.
Thanks! Looking forward to your comments.
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If you'd like more extreme contrasts, I would suggest Klemperer for slow and weird, and Scherchen/Toronto for fast and weird. Kondrashin (either one) is a very, VERY good, fast performance. I like Maazel/V.P.O. better for a really slow performance. Another good 'exteme' version is the Tennstedt one from 1991. Most everything else will seem rather 'central' in comparison to those (I think).
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I'd throw the Kubelik recording from the Mahler Broadcast box into the mix. It's almost as slow Klemp, very interesting though.
I have always really like Zinmans very musical account of the work, too. It's more on the light side, but I'm always quite satisfied when I'm done listening to it.
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Thanks for the great suggestions so far. I haven't listened to the Kubelik NYPO broadcast one in a long time, I'll dig that up.
Barry - would you agree that the Barenboim one is a good example of the timings you like to see if one is to regard the symphony as leading us from the darkness of the Sixth to the doorstep of the 8th? If not, what would you recommend for that approach?
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I haven't listened to the Kubelik NYPO broadcast one in a long time, I'll dig that up.
Done in 1981, it's quite different (slower) that his earlier outings on DG (1970) and Audite (1976). In reconsidering the work, Kubelík did just the opposite of Chailly, who decided the symphony should go faster, not slower. All three Kubelík performances of M7 are really wonderful in their own way. I could see making one of your listening sessions a comparison of the three recordings by listening to carefully-chosen sections or movements of each and then listening to the complete version of whichever one is deemed most interesting. Might make for a long evening, but then one can't be in a hurry where Mahler is concerned.
James
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"Barry - would you agree that the Barenboim one is a good example of the timings you like to see if one is to regard the symphony as leading us from the darkness of the Sixth to the doorstep of the 8th? If not, what would you recommend for that approach?"
Yes, I would. Another really good one in that regard is the Jonathan Nott/Bamberg S.O. one (Tudor). Markus Stenz is fast throughout, but he also has THE BEST finale of anyone. I also like the Dudamel one quite a bit.
Another good 'extreme' version is the Sinopoli. He's definitely dark and foreboding in the first two movements. He than has a pretty fast scherzo, followed by THE SLOWEST second Nacthmusik (fourth movement) of anyone. Yet, it's both mysterious and romantic sounding. It's different, that's for sure.
Zinman has a GREAT fourth movement (second Nachtmusik), and he does the centrally placed, slower 'moonlit' passage in the first movement better than anyone.
Boulez is rather extreme in that he takes 23 minutes on the first movement, yet is very fast in both Nachtmusik movements. His finale has pretty much the exact same timing as Bernstein I, Haitink I, Abbado I and Levine. You know, about 17:45
Have fun - that's the main thing. Don't make it too much like work.
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Every Thursday evening I meet with one or two friends and we listen to a Mahler symphony.
Sorry to create a sidebar here within this particular discussion.
These Mahler listening get-togethers you have going sound great! Since having moved to the Philadelphia area three years ago from the DC area, I have been having trouble finding people locally who enjoy listening to Mahler and other composers. This sounds odd, I know, since Philly is a great area for good music. But that is my case. When living in the DC area, I and another individual used to get together regularly, but he is now too far away.
Can anyone here offer any names and contact information for individuals in the Philly area who might be interested in doing something similar (with their permission, of course!)? Please provide any names and contact information in a private message within this forum.
Thanks,
Wade Rice
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Yannick Nezet-Seguin?
He probably spends a lot of time in Quebec anyway.
Everyone in Philly spends too much time and energy worrying about the Eagles, Phillies, Sixers and Flyers.
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Yannick Nezet-Seguin?
He probably spends a lot of time in Quebec anyway.
Everyone in Philly spends too much time and energy worrying about the Eagles, Phillies, Sixers and Flyers.
Not everyone. Me in particular. >:(
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Anyone here from the old old Mahler email list (late 90s i think)? There was some guy who had midi'd the "perfect" interpretation of M7, anyone remember this?
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There are two recordings of the 7th that I think everyone who loves this music should know: Hans Rosbaud and Anton Nanut. The former is in crummy sound, but at least is fairly easy to get. The latter in good modern sound. But both are performances that I like to think Mahler would have recognized. It's a way of playing and conducting that just doesn't exist too much anywhere. Not first choice versions, but certainly worth a listen, especially Rosbaud's, which was one of the first studio recordings and it used the uncorrected version.
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There are two recordings of the 7th that I think everyone who loves this music should know: Hans Rosbaud and Anton Nanut.
Agreed on Rosbaud. My copy is on the Phoenix label and the sound isn't all that bad for 1957 monaural. Interpretively it reminds me a bit of Gielen, but a little quicker in the first and fourth movements. Coincidentally it's the same orchestra as Gielen's: the Sinfonieorchester des Südwestfunk Baden Baden. There's a different transfer of this recording on Wergo, but I've not heard that one.
There's an earlier Rosbaud recording of Mahler 7 from 1952 on Vox with the Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin that should be avoided in favor of the 1957 recording. Scrappy playing and poor sound make it a non-starter. In addition, I believe the Vox CD is pitched incorrectly but I can't check now as I disposed of it shortly after acquiring the 1957 recording.
James
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I feel that a 'budget' version of M7 that's better than the Nanut one, is the one that's out on Arte Nova conducted by Adrian Leaper. However, I'm pretty sure it's out-of-print now. It's really one of the better M7's out there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Symphony-No-7-G-Mahler-CD-Used-Very-Good-/151843165219?hash=item235a8ed423
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I feel that a 'budget' version of M7 that's better than the Nanut one, is the one that's out on Arte Nova conducted by Adrian Leaper. However, I'm pretty sure it's out-of-print now. It's really one of the better M7's out there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Symphony-No-7-G-Mahler-CD-Used-Very-Good-/151843165219?hash=item235a8ed423
Wow, I thought my friend Larry was the only person who had this disc. It's surprisingly good.
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I have this Leaper M7 too! I haven't listened to it for a long time, I'll have to give it a spin today.
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Thanks everyone for all the excellent suggestions. Our first M7 Mahler Night will be tomorrow (Thursday), so I'm working on my list now. I'll post it here once I decide on everything. I'm thinking 4 different recordings.
I'm leaning towards:
TBD ? : a good solid "central" reference M7 maybe showing earlier interpretations. Any votes for this one?
Barenboim: an example of Barry's idea of the M6 to M8 bridge
Kubelik NYPO: to show a slow version
Scherchen Toronto: to contrast a very fast, unsentimental reading.
Not sure yet about the order, either, except for the first one to be a "central" reference version.
Suggestions?
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As well as transporting one from the shattering A-minor end of M6 to the doorstep of "Veni, Creator Spiritus", M7 is also Mahler's 'concerto for orchestra'. Every little 'bloop' and 'bleep' that every instrument plays is perfectly audible. I'm convinced that Bartok must have known the work. It's also a Mahlerian travelogue. The fields of Bohemia/Moravia are in there (first Nachtmusik in particular). The Alpen lands are in there. Italy is in there (second Nachtmusik). The brashness of a young America is in the finale. It's all there. It's a multidimensional work.
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It is a good reading, no doubt. The sound is natural enough - but I could do with more percussion. Rute and triangle in particular are largely absent. Or my hearing is kaput. I really like the no-nonsense way with the Finale. And in the introduction he gets the string tremolos correct - not measured 32nds. (I know, it is a confusing notation, but since virtually everyone except Barenboim and Solti do it unmeasured, I'll stick with it.)
By the way, the Scherchen is with the TRONTO ;) Symphonic Orchestra, at least on the edition I have.
No one has mentioned versions to avoid - maybe there are too many. But here's my list: Masur, Klemperer, Svetlanov, and Schwartz.
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Thanks for all the ideas - would still be happy to hear more.
Last night was our first M7 session. I decided on this for the program for the next 4 weeks:
Bertini / Koln
Kubelik / NY
Scherchen / Toronto
Barenboim
There's others I would like to hear, but we'll do those another time. I think after 4 weeks of the 7th we'll be ready to move onto studying another of the symphonies.
I agree about avoiding the Klemperer M7.
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That's a good variety. My opinion is if you were to use the Klemperer, you'd want to limit it to just the first two movements. Klemp's slow crawl just doesn't work in the latter movements.
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It seems that the Philharmonia has a monopoly of weird Mahler 7s on CD! Klemperer's was glacial, Sinopoli's and Horenstein's were both fascinatingly perverse, while the most recent Maazel (recorded in 2011) is also immensely glacial (though not as glacial as Klemperer). Maazel's first movement takes almost 27 minutes; the finale 20 minutes.