Stokowski 1950 M8 in NYC

[waderice]

If those of you here require stereo sound as a minimum for listening to Mahler - then read no further.

But if you're willing to get into Mahler performances that set standards for many yet to come, particularly of M8 - the April, 1950 performance by Stokowski in NYC is one that certainly is worth listening to.  This recording was the first complete one made of M8, other than Ormandy's recording of Part I only a couple of years earlier.  Despite rather fast tempi throughout, this Stoki performance comes in at under 78 minutes, perhaps the fastest M8 I know.  But he exercises controlled rubato at critical points in the score, especially at the coda of Part I, where he inserts a crescendo, at the last couple of notes, as well as rubato.  No other conductor has done this on record I'm aware of, and it brings Part I to a thrilling and impactful close.  There are a couple of instances in Part I where not everyone is together, but Stokowski apparently was able to get them back in sync rather quickly.

The soloists are excellent, especially the sopranos.  I don't recall any recording of M8 where the female soloists sing with as much emotion and conviction as they do here, particularly Frances Yeend, a renown concert soloist of the period.  The male soloists are adequate.  Choruses sing well, and the children's chorus here is one of the better ones I've heard in any M8 recording.

Sound is rather decent for a recording from this period where such large forces are employed, and have been admirably captured.  The soloists are closely miked, which helps their intelligibility, despite being at times distracting.  Orchestral sound is a bit muddy at times, but that's to be expected.  But the important thing to keep in mind here is that this is the approach that the first conductor to conduct the work in America (1916 in Philadelphia) takes with M8.

The performance is available on Music and Arts:  http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD1130hc.html

Wade

[barry guerrero]

I really need to re-hear the Stoky M8. I wasn't that crazy about it the first time, for which your indicated fast tempi may have something to do with. But this statement is a 'red flag' for me as well: "I don't recall any recording of M8 where the female soloists sing with as much emotion and conviction".

I don't want the women to always sing with lots of emotion and conviction. I do want Soprano I to belt out the end of her BIG solo near the end of Part II in good Wagnerian fashion (before the offstage soprano part, followed by "blicket auf") - you know, the business about Faust's anticipated redemption ushering in a brighter day and all that jazz.  But as for the 'three penitant women', I want to them to deliver the text in a fairly non-obtrusive way and permit us to hear Mahler's exquisite orchestration behind them. In fact, if they sang their parts from the next county, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. I don't want them 'emoting' on top of what's already an over-heated text.

As for Part I, I'm of the opinion that the vocal solos are usually sung too closely to sound like 'distant planets and stars', and too close to each other as well. I think that the soloists (in Part I) should be dispersed widely apart amongst the two adult choirs. Since that's not practical (they need to be more 'up front' for Part II, obviously), I think they really should be spaced widely apart behind the orchestra (at the front of the choir)  - but just for Part I. In my opinion, they shouldn't sound like an ensemble, but rather just as Mahler said: distant stars and planets.

The opening baritone and bass-baritone solos in Part II should sound quite 'Wagnerian', but then the music makes a sharp turn towards Mendelssohn. Again - just speaking for myself - I don't want the short female solos to sound  'over wrought' until we get to the above mentioned Soprano I solo. The two big tenor solos are very difficult, and yet they should sound quite 'helden tenor'-ish.  For me, the two big tenor solos are very key in judging the overall quality of any M8 recording (it's not 'make or break', but it is a critical element). I don't remember anything about Stokowski's tenor.

Regardless, I will give the Stokowski M8 another listen at some point in the near future. That much we do owe you for your time and fully informed opinion (I just have other priorities within M8). I know you're correct in stating or implying that it's a 'milestone' recording - there's no denying that.  And who knows: maybe I'll end up liking it better the second time around, or at least appreciate it for its strengths.

[waderice]

Barry, your points are well-taken.  I'll await with interest, your comments, after you've had a chance to rehear Stoki's M8.

Wade

[barry guerrero]

It turns out that the entire Stokowski version is now on YouTube! I listened to much of it last night, and I liked it better than the first time I heard it (then again, everything sounds better to me on YouTube, for some reason). The fast tempi didn't bother me at all. The ending to Part II wasn't so great, but that's to be expected. It was probably a 'smallish' hall with an undersized organ.

[James Meckley]

It was probably a 'smallish' hall with an undersized organ.

It was done in Carnegie Hall with an organ by Geo. Kilgen & Son of St. Louis. The Kilgen organ was installed there in 1929 and removed in 1966. Four manuals, 59 ranks, 4381 pipes.

BTW, the crescendo made during the last two seconds of Part One that Wade mentions above has always sounded faked to me; I suspect it was created (or significantly enhanced) by some knob twiddling in post production. Stokowski was notorious for doing this sort of thing—beginning in the 1930s—and he carried it to ridiculous extremes in some of his work for Decca's "Phase 4" program in the 70s.

EDIT: My version of the 1950 Stokowski M8 is the one from the NYPO "Mahler Broadcasts" box set. I haven't heard the Music & Arts CD, but people who have heard both tell me the mastering in the NYPO box is significantly cleaner.

James