Bertini EMI Box SQ

[merlin]

The box arrived this afternoon, and I listened to M1 (disc 1) and DLvDE (disc 11).  The difference between the two was astounding, in terms of both SQ and sound level.

I had to turn down the volume on the latter by 4db to match that of the former, and it was as though I was listening to a totally different set.

David Hurwitz rated the SQ pf the recordings as 10, but the first disc is about 7 at best.

So I am wondering if I got a bad pressing, and would greatly appreciate confirmation from folks who might have the box and are willing to test these two discs for me.  

Perhaps it is simply that the recording quality of the two is completely different, since they were made about a decade apart and IIRC, in a different venue.

I have not listened, as yet, to any of the others.

[barry guerrero]

Wow, well I'm really sorry if you're disappointed in the S.Q., as I think this is definitely one of the more consistent complete cycles out there. I didn't notice any really huge differences, but perhaps my equipment just isn't discerning enough. That said, I never assume that the volume knob should be keep at the same place for ANY two recordings - I constantly make adjustments for each and every recording. A lot of folks hate low level recordings because it never dawns on them to simply go over and turn the volume way up. However, that's not the problem here.

I do know that when EMI does their remasterings for their reissues, they do tend to boost the output levels. But I rarely find the sound to be worse than the original issue - just different. I can only suggest that you take your time and hang in there. I'll feel very bad if you end up not liking the Bertini cycle, but everybody is different.

[James Meckley]

Merlin,

I have this set—the black EMI box released in 2005. According to the booklet, both Symphony No. 1 and Das Lied were recorded in Suntory Hall, Tokyo, in November 1991, about a week apart by the same recording team. Does your set indicate otherwise?

I just loaded both discs into a professional CD mastering device and checked a few things. Their maximum levels match very closely—they're within a fraction of a dB—and both come within 1 dB of 0 dB Full Scale (the maximum level possible in any digital recording medium). This is exactly what I'd expect. However, the lowest levels on CD1 are significantly lower that the lowest levels on CD 11, meaning that CD1 has a greater dynamic range. These two facts together would make CD11 sound subjectively "louder" than CD1 and might account for your need to adjust your amplifier.

I wouldn't give either disc a '10' for sound quality.

This set was remastered in 2010 for a Japanese HQ-CD release. I checked the Das Lied from that set and the dynamic range seems pretty much the same, but the overall sound quality is slightly less grainy and a little fuller in the mid-bass, resulting in a marginally warmer effect. Not a night-and-day difference.

James

[merlin]

I just finished listening to M5.  Both the SQ and interpretation were wonderful!

The volume level needed was about the same as with DLvDE, perhaps a half-decibel louder.  Sadly, this makes me think that disc 1 (M1) is defective.

I will give it another listen, and if the same as the first go round, will send it back for a replacement.

Many thanks to you both for taking the time to test and respond.

[merlin]

Yes, James, you are correct.  M1 was recorded a week or so after both M8 and DLvdE in Japan.

But that underscores my sense that disc 1 of my set is defective.  I will be contacting MDT about the problem, but first will listen to the last track of disc 1 and all of disc 2, which contain M2, to be certain.

[Leo K]

Your disk 1 is fine. Just adjust your volume to compensate, like Barry mentioned above. I don't understand why that is a problem.

 

[merlin]

Adjusting the volume level does not in any way change the SQ.  I tend to listen at high volume anyway, due to both the dynamic range and a hearing loss.

The performances, so far, are all wonderful (I have listened to M1, 2, 5, 9 and 10), but the sound quality of the various discs are different from one another.  Varied recording levels are not the issue.

And FWIW, I cannot imagine what DH was smoking/ingesting/experiencing in giving these a rating of 10 for SQ!

I will be doing a comparison of my disc 1 with a copy very kindly provided by another forum member, and report back.

[merlin]

Having just finished listening to M7, I can unequivocally state that the SQ of this disc is far, far better than most of the others, clearly a 10.

In the end it is of course subjective, so all I can offer is my experience.

YMMV.

[Clov]

I love the bertini cycle, had several copies of it. In all honesty, I also noticed a brilliance in Das Lied but believe it more from flawless performances and maybe just dumb luck  that it turned out so good on the recording. The 1st doesn't sound of poor recording quality to my ears, though I'm no audiophile nor could I afford to be.