gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: GL on May 21, 2010, 01:49:31 PM
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I have just read about this on the board:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3808224
and I think it will be very interesting.
Since I liked very much his First, probably I will like this Fourth too:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3836006
(Currently, Honeck is touring Europe with this Symphony)
During an interview, Inbal spoke about a new cycle with the Czech Philahrmonic to be put on disc. So, I find a little strange that he continues recording with the Tokio Metropolitan Orchestra (Bertini's former band): here we have a Fourth:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3822219
Although the bands involved are not of first rank, I am still intrigued by these two records:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3801040
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3799717
because these are very good conductors that performed Mahler when Mahler had not yet become fashionable.
I have just ordered a copy of this live recording by Amazon.co.uk:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3831907
A "new" M2 with Klemperer has been unearthed:
http://www.testament.co.uk/default.aspx?PageID=74
Let's hope it will be a Resurrection resurrected and not simply another unearthed corpse.
This is not new either:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3813775
but it's not a corpse! Highly recommended!!!
Dulcis in fundo, the saddest news: as far as I know, there will be not a complete cycle with Ivan Fischer and his Budapest Festival Orchestra. Last year I enquired about this and about a Fith in particular and the guys at Channel Classics replied that they "have spoken about recording 1,3,and indeed 5 at some point in the future", but not a complete cycle. A cycle with technical and artistic standards experienced in M2, 4 and 6 would have been the major Mahler recording project of our time. I really hope they will change their mind.
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Dulcis in fundo, the saddest news: as far as I know, there will be not a complete cycle with Ivan Fischer and his Budapest Festival Orchestra. Last year I enquired about this and about a Fith in particular and the guys at Channel Classics replied that they "have spoken about recording 1,3,and indeed 5 at some point in the future", but not a complete cycle. A cycle with technical and artistic standards experienced in M2, 4 and 6 would have been the major Mahler recording project of our time. I really hope they will change their mind.
Also, Fischer said in an interview (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/10/interview-with-ivan-fischer.html) about the Eighth: "This very complicated, complex, monumental work is not [my] cup of tea", so there cannot be a complete cycle in any case.
So he seems to be in the club with Haitink, even if Haitink recorded the piece.
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Fischer and his orchestra will perform M7th in Korea this fall.
John,
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With all these upcoming releases, maybe we can stop talking about recent Mahler 9 recordings for five minutes. Sheeesh . . enough already.
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I'm with Barry on that one. I do love Mahler 9 but it would be good to get a new discussion started as well.
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But I only collect M9's these days. Guess I'll have to stay off the board for awhile.
:'(
--Todd
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We can keep that conversation going too! Just starting something new as well couldn't hurt.
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yeah Todd, no hurt feelings intended. Tell you what, get the EMI complete Mahler edition box coming in June, and then we'll really have something to talk about. It's actually going to be very reasonably priced!
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yeah Todd, no hurt feelings intended. Tell you what, get the EMI complete Mahler edition box coming in June, and then we'll really have something to talk about. It's actually going to be very reasonably priced!
Thats cool Barry... and this box sounds great...better then the DG box!
--Todd
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Abbado's 1st from Lucerne 2009 has been announced and is set to be released in a couple of months (DVD Euroarts).
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Fischer and his orchestra will perform M7th in Korea this fall.
John,
But last time I checked, they axed the Mahler and replaced it with Brahms or something.
I better make sure...
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Zinman's Ninth:
http://www.amazon.de/Mahler-Sinfonie-9-David-Zinman/dp/B003OQDG44/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276105852&sr=1-2
Boulez's Das Knaben Wunderhorn:
http://www.amazon.de/Knaben-Wunderhorn-Pierre-Boulez/dp/B003P58C0M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276105852&sr=1-1
Stenz's Fourth (another Fourth!):
http://www.amazon.de/Sinfonie-4-Stenz/dp/B003NEQAEA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276105852&sr=1-9
Jarvi's (Neeme) Seventh:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3846885 (I would have prefer it had been with his former Scottish Orchestra)
A Fifth with Feltz:
http://www.amazon.de/Mahler-Sinfonie-Nr-5-Feltz/dp/B003JG9382/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276106633&sr=1-1
This Feltz has just recorded the Sixth and the Seventh. My instict suggests to stay aloof-does anybody know something about this conductor and his Mahler recordings?
Luca
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Finally...Zinman's 9th is on the way. I hope it improves on the broadcast I heard from Aspen some time ago...which is a fantastic account of the 9th. I know Jon Kim eagerly awaits Zinman's commercial recording as well.
--Todd
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Finally...Zinman's 9th is on the way. I hope it improves on the broadcast I heard from Aspen some time ago...which is a fantastic account of the 9th. I know Jon Kim eagerly awaits Zinman's commercial recording as well.
--Todd
Yep. But I was surprised Zinman's new recording will be available so soon after his 8th :o.
John,
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Yep. But I was surprised Zinman's new recording will be available so soon after his 8th :o.
John,
Remember the delays it suffered ...
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ouuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh!!! - an M7 with Jarvi and the Residente Orchetra from The Hague (Det Haag). That MIGHT be really, really hot!
Barry
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Tilson Thomas/Hampson (+Graham) strike again:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3854978
Carzy tempos for Jarvi's VII:
I- 20:40
II- 12:53 (World record! He has beaten Scherchen for 2 seconds!!!)
III- 9:10
IV- 9:54 (World record!!!)
V- 17:09
I'm very curoious. I have found a cheap SACD here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-Residentie-Orchestra-Hague/dp/B003OEFUH2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1277198310&sr=8-1
Even if Jarvi won two battles, nevertheless, as far as I remember at this moment, Scherchen won the war: the fastet VII remains his one with the Toronto Symphony O. (recorded live in 1965; his tempos: I-18:36 (world record); II-12:55; III-8:20 (world record, I think); IV-13:03; V-16:42).
Scherchen succeeded in doing the first movement of the VI in 14:03 and Andante moderato (placed second) in 12:34 (Leipzig Radio O.-recorded live in 1961; no ritornello in the first, obviously; other movement with cuts). On the other hand, Scherchen holds the world record for slowness for the Adagietto (15:12 with the Philadelphia O.-recorded live in 1964; third and fifth movements with cuts).
Regards,
Luca
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Tilson Thomas/Hampson (+Graham) strike again:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3854978
YES!!!!
Carzy tempos for Jarvi's VII:
I- 20:40
II- 12:53 (World record! He has beaten Scherchen for 2 seconds!!!)
III- 9:10
IV- 9:54 (World record!!!)
V- 17:09
PERFECT.
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Well, about this fast Seventh by Jarvi there are two possibilities:
1) It will be fast AND exciting.
2) It will be fast-PERIOD.
We cheer for the first hypothesis, of course ...
Regards,
Luca
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A lovely review of Jarvi's VII has just appeared:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jun/24/mahler-symphony-7-jarvi
L.
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A 15-minute Adagietto? I wanna hear that! :D
On a side note, I remember someone mentioning they would post the 1986 Berlin Philharmonic/Rattle M6 on Rapidshare...?
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A 15-minute Adagietto? I wanna hear that! :D
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3797775
L.
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The fact that a British critic gave the N. Jarvi M7 a bad review makes me REALLY want to hear it. They might be right, but I want to judge for myself. Besides, it's cheap enough.
Unlike his Toronto M7, the playing on Scherchen's Philly M5 is amazing! More astonishing than the 15 minute Adagietto, is the ultra-fast second movement.
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The fact that a British critic gave the N. Jarvi M7 a bad review makes me REALLY want to hear it. They might be right, but I want to judge for myself. Besides, it's cheap enough.
Unlike his Toronto M7, the playing on Scherchen's Philly M5 is amazing! More astonishing than the 15 minute Adagietto, is the ultra-fast second movement.
Same here. It's not quite as frustrating as in the 80's/early 90's when ever Rattle recording got a positive review on that side of the Atlantic, but let's just say I've been burnt a few times.
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The fact that a British critic gave the N. Jarvi M7 a bad review makes me REALLY want to hear it. They might be right, but I want to judge for myself. Besides, it's cheap enough.
Unlike his Toronto M7, the playing on Scherchen's Philly M5 is amazing! More astonishing than the 15 minute Adagietto, is the ultra-fast second movement.
I had similar experiences with English critics. Moreover, this one writes that Jarvi's Mahler has been never remarkable. Well, I find what he recorded with his former Scottish orchestra remarkable (Third and Sixth, in particular).
Not even a great conductor like Ancerl (M5, live 1969, Tahra) succeeded in getting something amazing by the Toronto Orchestra. I agree on the playing of Scherchen's Philly (really scorching!) and I regret very much the cuts. I think that the transformation of the adagietto in a weighty adagio (an Adagione?) is due to the needing to restore the proportions lost by cutting the Scherzo (heavily) and the Rondo finale (less heavily). What a pity!
Regards,
Luca
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A lovely review of Jarvi's VII has just appeared:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jun/24/mahler-symphony-7-jarvi
L.
I have my doubts about any reviewer that states "...but nevertheless the CD catalogue contains some outstanding solutions to these challenges. Those versions, conducted by Abbado, Chailly and, most recently and very differently, by David Zinman, make a case for the work as one of Mahler's most radical and forward-looking scores."
While I am a big fan of Abbado's M7, I would certainly not list Chailly or Zinman among the MANY truly outstanding M7's in the catalog. OTOH, I like when a reviewer lists their favorite performances, since it helps me gauge whether we share similar tastes in Mahler.
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While I am a big fan of Abbado's M7, I would certainly not list Chailly or Zinman among the MANY truly outstanding M7's in the catalog.
I would list Zinman's M7 as outstanding.
--Todd
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The Stenz cycle continues with Das Knaben Wunderhorn:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Des-Knaben-Wunderhorn/hnum/5519025
L.
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Wow! - I'm getting this. I just listened to all 14 excerpts, and they all sound great. Michael Volle is terrific! Like Bernstein, the songs that have dialog or exchanges between a male and a female, use both singers (Szell too? - can't remember). I think "DKW" is hugely underestimated, and should be a prerequisite - at gunpoint, if necessary - for ANY conductor who's going to embark on a complete Mahler cycle.
I would urge everybody here to listen through these excerpts. I can't wait to hear the rest of "Revelge" (track 12).
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An interesting book:
Knud Martner "Mahler's Concerts"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahlers-Concert-Knud-Martner/dp/0715639765/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278490281&sr=8-1
From Amazon's product description:
"Today regarded as one of the most important composers, during his lifetime Gustav Mahler was best known as one of the world's most acclaimed conductors. "Mahler's Concerts" provides the first complete history of Mahler on the podium with detailed information including the works performed, soloists and concert halls for each of the more than 300 concerts he conducted with leading orchestras including the New York Philharmonic, for which he served as Music Director for the last few years of his life. In addition to a chronological listing of each concert, various indexes provide the ability to track down concerts by composer or soloist. In addition, there are fascinating tables that rank which composers and works were Mahler's favourites. There are also introductions which describe Mahler's life and musical activities for each chapter. A special feature of the book is the more than 250 reproductions of rare programs, playbills and advertisements covering the concerts Mahler conducted."
L.
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A new (?) Fifth:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3859501
I guess that RPO means Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, but who is Mr. 西本智実? ???
L.
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He's a cubist. A Rubrick's cubist, to be precise. :D
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A Google search of 西本智実 eventually led to this:
http://japansclassic.com/artists/kojima_02/tomomi_nishimoto.html
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He's a cubist. A Rubrick's cubist, to be precise. :D
Uhm.. Rubrick..Rubrick...I think that Rubrick the cubist is a czech conductor (a former painter, perhaps), probably a pupil of Neumann or Ancerl. I make enquiries around and I'll let you know. Anyway, the one I was looking for is Japanese. Apropos-thank you very much Mr. Smiley!!!
Regards,
Luca
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CT's reviews of the EMI:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12883
and DG collections:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12884
L.
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Whatever. I have the EMI, and I'm quite happy with it. I'm not all pleased with the selections on the UNI set. In particularly, I don't want to have the badly played and bizarrely interpreted Sinoopli M7 (with an extremely slow mvt. IV), followed by the fast and brittle sounding Solti M8. If others want that, they're welcome to it.
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Whatever. I have the EMI, and I'm quite happy with it. I'm not all pleased with the selections on the UNI set. In particularly, I don't want to have the badly played and bizarrely interpreted Sinoopli M7 (with an extremely slow mvt. IV), followed by the fast and brittle sounding Solti M8. If others want that, they're welcome to it.
I'm with you. I think that the weak performances choosen for the EMI set are less weak than the weak ones of the UNI set. And I find this bad because UNI has more recordings among which making choices.
Luca
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Nott's M2 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonie-Nr-2/hnum/1119745) is not exactly a "new release", but I report about it here and now in connection with the recent attention accorded to it by Mr. Hurwitz:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12896
and by Mr. Huss:
http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=3666,
two reviews with some insightful considerations about critcism.
Luca
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I recently heard Nott's "Rite Of Spring", and felt that it pretty much typified what my impressions are about Nott's work in general. It was nicely recorded (sacd/cd hybrid) and fairly well played. But it was also interpretively faceless, and lacked sufficient forward propulsion to make it stand out from the crowd. In short, it was just sort of "there". Those are my feelings about Nott in general. For Bamberg, he must certainly be good news. But if he's going to keep recording standard literature, then I must also complain that his recordings don't compete with the very best.
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Nott seems an honest professional, like a student that always comes to school only after having done his homework as best as he can. The problem is that his best is not always up to my expextations. He did very well in the field of contemporary music (among other things, I have some very good Ligety with BPO). He is currently conducting a (not complete) cycle in Bamberg (M3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10-Adagio, Das Lied) and perhaps we will see some of these performances on CD.
I think his connection with Mahler goes back to the establishment of a competition for conductors dedicated to Mahler, in 2004, in Bamberg (http://www.bambergsymphony.com/dirigentenwettbewerb1.html?&L=gcerieiceexh). The three symphonies that he recorded until 2008 (the Fifth, the First and Fourth) were the same ones that had to be conducted by the candidates of the competition. I listened to these three symphonies, and I must admit that they have their moments (probably the musicians also benefited from their work with contest's candidates), but at the end of each it is like if I left the dinner-room with some residue of hunger.
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Speaking of faceless interpretations: in Japan they are going to reissue 3 among the Symphonies Dohnanyi did in Cleveland for Decca:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/search/index.asp?target=MUSIC&category=1&adv=1&keyword=Mahler+cleveland+Dohnanyi&site=&type=sr
I admire Dohnanyi and his former band very much and my expecations were very high. Alas, the Fifth and the Sixth proved to be cold, almost soulless. Experiencing these two renditions and reading poor reviews about the First and the Fourth made me stay aloof from what I have not yet listened to. I read a positive review about the Second you can find in the Box-set dedicated to Dohnanyi at the end of his tenure in Cleveland. I never heard or read reviews about the Ninth, but I think that it does not deviate much from the rest, isn't it?
Luca
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I haven't been able to describe why Nott's M9 is among my top choices now...if I could I would try to defend it better! In the meantime, I haven't heard his other Mahler, but his M9 really grew after numerious listenings. Some recordings take time and patience, and have qualities not heard after the first hearing. I hope those dissapointed at least keep it in their collections for another rainy day.
--Todd
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I haven't been able to describe why Nott's M9 is among my top choices now...if I could I would try to defend it better! In the meantime, I haven't heard his other Mahler, but his M9 really grew after numerious listenings. Some recordings take time and patience, and have qualities not heard after the first hearing. I hope those dissapointed at least keep it in their collections for another rainy day.
--Todd
I think I know exactly why some critics have dismissed Nott's M9th. Let's face it. For such an ambitious reading and recording, the BSO may lack the last degree of lung power and refinement that other world class orchestras have. It's like an amateur singer who knows how to interpret a great song hits all the right marks in his singing and yet is criticized for lacking the technical prowess that is required to measure up to his ambition. I feel that way whenever I listen to the Nott. You know, we human beings always try to be nasty to each other at our most subconscious level. Wouldn't you agree? Why can't we just look on the bright side and give them a praise that they deserve?
John,
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I haven't been able to describe why Nott's M9 is among my top choices now...if I could I would try to defend it better! In the meantime, I haven't heard his other Mahler, but his M9 really grew after numerious listenings. Some recordings take time and patience, and have qualities not heard after the first hearing. I hope those dissapointed at least keep it in their collections for another rainy day.
--Todd
This is what I'm used to do with controversial recordings: I put them aside, I let time pass, even months, I let discussions and disputes fade away, then I pick them up again and listen to them with more impartial ears. Sometimes I change my opinion (for better but also for worse), sometimes not, but I always find this way to reconsider things healthy for my critical skills.
L.
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Back to the main topic: 14 SACDs, RCA Red Seal: could it be Zinman's complete cycle?
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/lang/en/currency/EUR/hnum/1239978/art_hex/472d4d61686c65722d53796d70686f6e6965732d4e6f2d312d3130
???
If yes, would it mean the Tenth will be only available within the box set?
Luca
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It must be Zinman's cycle.
John,
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Shame on RCA, if Zinman's Tenth will be not available separately.
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DG has just released a collection of recordings made by Giulini in L.A.:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Carlo-Maria-Giulini-Giulini-in-America/hnum/9798925
I think that the Schumann's Third we can find in this wonderful box set is played with Mahler's "retuschen".
Luca
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DH seems to like Stenz's Fourth (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonie-Nr-4/hnum/7558775).
rating: 10/10
Well now, this is more like it! After a comparatively uninteresting Fifth Symphony for this label (not to be confused with his outstanding Melbourne recording of that work for ABC Classics), Markus Stenz is back in fine Mahlerian form. His Fourth symphony is wonderfully distinctive, most notably for a freshness and spontaneity that perfectly suits the music. At the same time, however, Stenz and the Cologne players capture a remarkable amount of detail (and this is the crucial point) without ever sounding mannered or self-conscious.
Stenz's most characterful touches may be most obvious in the scherzo and finale, both of which are taken quite swiftly by today's standards. The result gives the former an extra jolt of sardonic humor, especially when contrasted with the much slower trio sections. In the finale, the relatively quick tempo gives the soprano's childlike delivery almost the feel of a nursery rhyme, while the dreamy smile in her voice in the last stanza is simply exquisite.
Many of the same characterful qualities are evidenced in the first movement and Adagio as well. Stenz permits himself a very wide range of tempo, but never to the point where the music sounds excessively sectionalized or threatens to fall apart. The climaxes in the first movement are aptly ferocious, while the contrast between the Adagio's calm first theme and its more passionate minor-key episodes is really telling. He gets through the latter movement in about 20 minutes, but emotionally speaking it feels much bigger (not longer!) still. In sum, this is simply a wonderful performance, excellently played, recorded, and sung, and it's different enough from all of the competition to justify purchase even if you already think you own enough versions of this symphony.
--David Hurwitz
(http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12911)
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The 12th and final volume in Tilson Thomas survey of Mahler’s symphonies and song cycles with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra will include performances of Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, with Thomas Hampson as soloist, the Rückert-Lieder sung by Susan Graham, and selections from Des Knaben Wunderhorn (here for samples: http://www.sfsymphony.org/projects/default.aspx?id=45780&linkidentifier=id&itemid=45780).
The final volume will be available on iTunes from August 31 and released on CD on September 14. A box set of the complete cycle and a limited-edition vinyl set will be released later in the year.
L.
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The 12th and final volume in Tilson Thomas survey of Mahler’s symphonies and song cycles with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra will include performances of Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, with Thomas Hampson as soloist, the Rückert-Lieder sung by Susan Graham, and selections from Des Knaben Wunderhorn (here for samples: http://www.sfsymphony.org/projects/default.aspx?id=45780&linkidentifier=id&itemid=45780).
The final volume will be available on iTunes from August 31 and released on CD on September 14. A box set of the complete cycle and a limited-edition vinyl set will be released later in the year.
L.
I'm all over that vinyl set!
--Todd
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Vinyl set?? Will there be LPs of these digital recording? ??? ::)
John,
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My Bernstein DG M9 LP (recorded digital) sounds vastly better than any CD incarnation, even the SHM-CD! The difference is night and day. So it is possible the MTT vinyl will sound great. It depends on who masters the vinyl.
--Todd
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My Bernstein DG M9 LP (recorded digital) sounds vastly better than any CD incarnation, even the SHM-CD! The difference is night and day. So it is possible the MTT vinyl will sound great. It depends on who masters the vinyl.
--Todd
Only if I could hear the Lenny M9 LPs... :-[ :-\
John,
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For the ones (very few, I guess) inerested, Exton has released a First with the Stockholm Philharmonic conducted by Sakari Oramo:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3734613
Oramo has previously recorded a not bad Fifth with Birmingham (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonie-Nr-5/hnum/6057301; first recording of the new critical edition; Live; very decent Adagietto and Finale).
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In Europe, Zinman's Ninth is just available:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonie-Nr-9/hnum/3678561
Luca
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With the publication of the First Symphony conducted by Ashkenazy in Sydney (first Mahler cycle in Australia?)
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3893630
it seems that Exton begins another cycle.
After the announced Inbal / CPO and those of Kobayashi / CPO, Kobayashi / JPO, Honeck / Pittsburgh, a question arises: will Exton never complete a full cycle?
We'll see...
Luca