your neglected Mahler work?? "True Confessions" about M8

[john haueisen]

Did you ever have the experience of finding that you had neglected a particular Mahler work?
For a long time I had not paid attention to Mahler's songs, but last year I discovered "Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen," and felt a closer kinship with Mahler.  It seems to me as though he's right there in his song, telling us something about himself, and why he might seem to have dropped off the Earth, into a world of his own music.

Likewise, a friend recently mentioned loving every word, every phrase of Mahler's Eighth.

I am ashamed to admit that I had always neglected M8.  Part of my excuse is that I had such close friendships with M2, M3, M4, M6, M7 and M9, that I just hadn't spent time on M8.  Another excuse was that I was a little bit intimidated by those eight soloists, the Latin, the choirs, and the huge orchestras.

My friend was right.  I didn't know what I had been missing.  Mahler's Eighth is, a dispenser of joy, "a bringer of joy" as Mahler described it to Richard Specht (HLDLG: Vienna: Triumph and Disillusion, p 926).  M8 is simply overflowing with happiness, peace and redemption.  Shame on me for having neglected it for so long, and thanks to my friend for persuading me to pay attention to it.  All day long, I hear notes, phrases, and whole passages of it running through my mind, no matter what else I am doing.

Has anyone else postponed trying out M8, or has anyone else ever neglected a Mahler work, only to discover later what they had been missing?

  

[waderice]

Over the years, I find that the one Mahler work I've neglected the most has been the Kindertotenlieder.  I find the other song cycles more interesting and fascinating than the Kindertotenlieder.  I guess it's because the work is the most depressing of all Mahler's works, particularly when you're a parent.

Wade

[John Kim]

Here is my question:

How often is your life full of joy and happiness?

I bet there are more unhappy, struggling moments than the opposite moments in the life of modern man.

So, naturally we don't get as close to M8th than say, M6th, M9th and M10th.

It's simple as that.

Of course, this is not to say that M8th is inferior to the other Mahler symphonies as a piece of art.

John,

[Russ Smiley]

Did you ever have the experience of finding that you had neglected a particular Mahler work?
...
Has anyone else postponed trying out M8, or has anyone else ever neglected a Mahler work, only to discover later what they had been missing?

It wasn't that I postponed or neglected M8, but instead I simply did not like it (or any of his vocal works).  I originally acquired Tennstedt's acclaimed M8, based on its reputation, but it just didn't stick.  Jarvi's was a definite bust (for me).  Chaiily's M8 didn't wear well after many repeated hearings.  A few years ago I bought another Tennstedt M8, a used copy, but still it really didn't work (for me).

After three decades of enjoying M9 (Giulini/CSO), M1 (after NYPO summer concert on LI park), M6 (Abbado/CSO), M4 (Previn/PSO), M5 (Sinopoli/PO), M2 (Kaplan/LSO), DLvdE (Giulini/BPO), and M10 (Chailly/BRSO) - roughly in that order as I recall, on LP or then CD - the Gergiev and Witt M8s won me over to M8.  Now, like John, I've discovered the joy, and I find myself hearing M8 fragments in my mind all the time (should I warn my wife and/or doctor?).

I've had a similar impediment to M7.  I had the well-regarded Abbado/CSO M7, but it always sounded disjointedly episodic to me, like a patchwork of section-by-section studio takes (I admit to having no idea how it was actually recorded).  Now, after owning Halász, Bertini, Barenboim, Abbado/BPO, and Noseda, I can't understand what confounded me, but something did, and now it thankfully is gone.

Perhaps passing five decades of life has something to do with it.  It is somewhat unsettling to think that my 'maturity' at 25, 30, 35, 40, and even 45 wasn't sufficient to appreciate M8, but I can't deny the truth.

That said, I still have  along way to go with the rest of Mahler's vocal-symphonic genre.  Ask me to hum a tune from Rückertlieder. KTL, DKW, LEFG, or DKL and I'll fail the test.  Yes, I can hear in my mind's ear the cor anglais in "Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen" and the martial start of "Wo die schönen Trompeten blasen" but if asked, I couldn't say in which cycles these appear.

Unlike Mahler, I'm counting on another five decades to come to know these as well as his symphonic works.

[david johnson]

I do not like #8...never have.  Love the rest, though.

[john haueisen]

I admire your honesty, Dave, but from my personal experience just now discovering for myself the overwhelming beauty of M8, I believe that time may change your mind.

[John Kim]

Let me put it this way:

I LIKE M8th very much, but don't listen to it as often as I listen to the other symphonies for the reason I explained above.

So, liking and listening are two different things .

John,

[Damfino]

Put me down as one who does not care much for M8. However, I am sure that one day it will click for me. I'm not much into Mahler's (non symphonic) songs, either.

Dave

[Russell]

I wonder if loving vocal music (including choral music and opera) might have something to do with whether or not one takes to M8?  For me, as an opera and lieder lover, if given the choice to hear a performance of M8 or any other Mahler symphony, I'd take the M8 just about every time.  Also the sheer mass alone is such an overwhelming experience.

Russell

[waderice]

I first discovered M8 around 1970, with Bernstein's LSO Columbia/Sony recording.  Though I was then intrigued by the numbers of performers involved, it took until 1974, when I participated in a performance of the work as part of Chorus I in Washington's National Cathedral, with the Cathedral Choral Society and the Choral Arts Society.  It was then that I discovered and began to appreciate the power and beauty of the work.  Numerous sections of the work's power and beauty stood out, and still do, in my memory of the experience.

For those of you who don't yet care for the work, it may either take a live encounter, either as a performer or at a concert to begin to appreciate M8 as the former required me to do.  Also, a basic understanding of, or appreciation of both German and Latin may act as an aid.  If at any time, you can get tickets to go to a live performance, definitely do go!  You may be in for quite an experience!

It also may be that recording technology has yet to fully capture the impact of the work for many of you.  Until then.....

Wade

[Roffe]

I didn't care very much for M8 until I heard (and saw) a live performance in the 80's. The first FFF 'Veni creator' with organ, choirs, solists, and full orchestra completely blew me away. I may not play M8 as often as the other symphonies, but I now appreciate it and love it.

No, for me it's DKL that is my neglected work. Maybe I need a live performance to really appreciate it. Or perhaps play it again and again and again, so that the texts get burned to the hard disc in my brain and I can hum along with the singers.

Roffe

[stillivor]

"80s" - just a simple plural, like "books", not "book's".


I used to be blind to the songs, especially K.L. and Knaben; oh, and the early songs. Among the symphonies, M8 tended to be the back marker.

However this lovely board inspired me to listen to the complete works from first to last in cycles. [I have reached M4 on my 10th circuit.] Doing so has taught me to love the lot. Now I do, it is crystal clear to me that Mahler simply is the composer for me.

As with contemporary music, a part of the secret of getting to grips is repeated listening. Right until the resistable has become familiar. Now that I have got more familiar with 8, the panorama no longer looks as it did. And the lack of closeness to the songs is now rather surprising because they are so beautiful. [But then, I've only recently made proper comtact with opera.

btw, I think whether or not one gets with the 8th, the songs and so on early or late depends on whether one is a very literary person or not.


   Ivor

[Roffe]

I stand corrected.

Roffe

[Don]

For some inexplicable reason, M4 has been the most neglected Mahler work for me, along with Das Klagende Lied.

I am rectifying this situation however!

[john haueisen]

Good for you, Don.
For me, the simple, childlike view of heaven of M4 reminds me of Anton Bruckner's unquestioning religion.  It is important for the singer to sing in a childlike fashion: not showing off the voice, but straightforwardly telling about a simple vision of heaven.
I also neglected M4 for too long, and have just rediscovered it this year.
John H