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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Russell on October 10, 2009, 08:46:28 AM
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Looks like Gustavo Dudamel's inaugural concert with LA (10/8/09), featuring the M1, will apparently be released on DVD by DG at the end of November (at least in Japan):
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3687951/ref/3686987_1
(Happened to notice this on the same page as the new Haitink M2 that Russ Smiley referenced.) I believe the concert will also be telecast on PBS later this month.
Russell
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I wonder if this is the same concert that has the premiere of Adams' City Noir. I always look forward to almost anything of his.
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Yes, the LA/Dudamel opening concert included the Adams City Noir and the Mahler Symphony No. 1. The entire concert will be featured on the PBS Great Performances series Wednesday, October 21, 2009. Both pieces will also be on the DG DVD to be released, apparently, in November. DG also plan a separate audio-only release of the Mahler.
James
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Awesome news! I look forward to it!
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To sbugala and anyone else interested:
Here's a link to a high quality French video recording of the entire Dudamel/LA Adams & Mahler concert. It appears from the date of production given (10/9) that this material originates from the night after opening night:
http://liveweb.arte.tv/fr/video/Dudamel_dirige_l_orchestre_philharmonique_de_Los_Angeles/
It's all there, including a lot of test footage at the beginning and raw footage during intermission. Just use the fast-forward button or move the cursor ahead to the actual program. The audio isn't bad, either. Enjoy!
James
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Thanks for the link, James! I just sampled a bit of it, and the video and audio are indeed of very good quality. If it weren't already being broadcast in the US (and hopefully it will be in HD), I would try to find a way to capture the streaming video and audio. Pretty good music-making as well, from what I heard.
It appears that the video is German in origin, actually, as the title at the beginning stated "Live aus der Walt Disney Concert Hall". (Didn't get to the closing credits, where more info might be revealed.) It initially occurred to me that the October 9th date was because of the time difference (of course it would have already been the 9th in Europe if this was indeed the October 8th concert--a live feed to Europe, perhaps?), but then again, maybe it really is the concert on the 9th. I wouldn't be surprised if all the opening concerts were being videotaped so that DG could patch in bits and pieces (if necessary) to produce the final DVD.
Russell
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Russell,
Thanks for noticing the German title. The closing credits do indeed show DG as a co-producer. They also show large quantities of silvered confetti falling from the upper reaches of the hall. This I know was done on opening night, and it seems unlikely they would repeat the gesture on subsequent evenings. Although there were concerts scheduled for October 8, 9, 10, & 11, I'm inclined to agree with you that this is very likely the opening night concert on 10/8, and that the 10/9 label results from it being 10/9 in Germany at the time.
I also made a recording of the WFMT live streaming audio presentation of the 10/8 concert. If I find the time, I'll compare it with the audio from this German video to see if the performance flubs (of which there were several) and audience coughs line up, indicating for certain they're the same performance.
James
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Here's final confirmation that the German video is actually of the 10/8 opening concert: On the 10/9 concert (and on subsequent evenings) Adams's City Noir was replaced by another LAPO commission, Chin's Su.
James
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And there you have it! Thanks for doing the research.
Russell
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I have wanted to like Dudamel's conducting more than I actually have.
A friend of a friend plays in the L.A. Phil, and, according to my friend, when this string player was asked to compare Salonen with Dudamel, as to S, he made a face and may have used the word "pedantic." But as to D, he reportedly said, with clear enthusiasm, "Now, there's a real musician!"
But I have yet to catch the Dudamel fever. I heard his DG recording of M5, and it seemed passable, but far from exceptional. KUSC, our local station (I'm in SoCal), broadcast the live Beethoven 9 at the Hollywood Bowl from last week, and again, I was underwhelmed. Good, but not great, or even really excellent. Then I listened to the live broadcast of the new John Adams symphony, City Noir, followed by M1. I liked the Adams work, but again, Dudamel failed to impress me in Mahler. This is of particular interest because, unless I misunderstood the KUSC commentators, Mahler is apparently a specialty of Dudamel, who won the Mahler conducting competition a few years back.
My lack of enthusiasm at this point isn't, I think, a negative reaction to the hype, which in the L.A. area has been enormous. I trust my own judgment enough to occasionally really admire the hyped, despite the relentless urging of the media machine. The Dudamel interviews I've heard on radio show him to be personable, engaging, perhaps even charismatic. I admire what El Systema has apparently achieved in Venezuela, and think it's a great idea for L.A.
But when I compare the Dudamel Beethoven and Mahler performances I've heard with the live performances of those works that really stick in the memory, or the recordings that I frequently return to (for reference: B9 -- Furtwangler, Barenboim; M5 -- Chailly, Bernstein/VPO; M1 -- Jansons, Tennstedt), Dudamel's versions aren't even close.
Of course, Dudamel is still very young, and could still turn out to be absolutely terrific, even to my perhaps jaded ears. I just hope all the acclaim, and the love he gets from his orchestra, doesn't convince him, and those around him, that he has actually arrived as a great conductor.
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I only know Dudamel's work through his DG recordings, but I feel very much the same way. What's all the hype about? I feel that is his best recording, so far, is "Fiesta". Naturally, those works have little competition, and that music is right up his alley.
They keep talking about Dudamel energizing the L.A. Phil., but I certainly wouldn't describe Salonen has having been lethargic in nature. Ever listened to his "Rite Of Spring"? Defiinitely one of the faster and more energized performances out there.
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I pretty much have the same feelings about Dudamel's audio-only recordings. I haven't heard his Beethoven 5/7, but I've got all his other stuff on DG, including a live 'Symphonie Fantastique' with LA from iTunes. I think the performances are good, very good at times, but otherwise not particularly distinctive or memorable, despite the positive reviews. Somehow his enthusiasm and charisma don't come through on those recordings for me (though if memory serves, the ending to the M5 was pretty exciting). However, watching him in action is a different story, and goes a long way in appreciating his talents. There are numerous videos of him on YouTube that convey more of his unique qualities than his audio-only recordings. There's a justly famous video of him and his Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra doing an encore of Bernstein's 'Mambo' from West Side Story at the Proms in 2007, and I think it pretty much sums up what "Dudamania" (as they're calling it in LA) is all about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEMIX-N3B5Q&feature=PlayList&p=0455A93D571D0C2A&index=0
There's also a newly released DVD of him and his youth orchestra of a Salzburg concert of more 'serious' music: Beethoven Triple Concerto and 'Pictures at an Exhibition'; I've ordered it from Amazon (it's pretty cheap at the moment) and I'll be very interested in viewing it. I know the visual aspect shouldn't necessarily add to one's appreciation of a conductor's music making, but in Dudamel's case, I think it does. He guest-conducted with the SFS last year, and by all accounts I've heard (including a couple of friends who attended), the concerts were something special. I was sorry to have missed them.
Russell
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This topic raises some interesting questions. I think that what might, just possibly, be meant by Dudamel "energizing" the L.A. Phil is that the musicians (and everyone else) seems to like Dudamel, really like him. But as a mere music-lover, my reaction is: so what? I don't imagine that whether orchestra members like a conductor is a guarantee, or even a reliable indicator, of the quality of music-making that results. I understand that George Szell was a strict disciplinarian; the Cleveland players could't have liked that (who would?) but the recorded legacy speaks for itself and, in my opinion, at least in some repertory, it is excellent. Same deal for Karajan, who was absolutely terrific in Bruckner, though not as much in other stuff. By contrast, the NY Phil players are reputed to have really liked Maazel, but no one speaks of his tenure as a golden era.
As to appreciating Dudamel due in part to the visual element . . . music is an aural medium. I don't go to concerts to see conductors leaping around, and I recently passed on a Lang Lang concert for just this reason. While I don't deny that there is a visual element to concert-going (and, of course, opera is another story), if the magic of Dudamel is dependent on seeing him perform, then he can be a magical conductor to everyone except the blind. Somehow, Bernstein notwithstanding, I don't think visual entertainment is what Mahler, or Beethoven, had in mind.
By the way, I don't mean to suggest that because a conductor is visually entertaining, he or she can't be musically terrific. Bernstein was great in a lot of repertory, not least Mahler. Nor do I mean to imply that if a conductor is well-liked by his orchestra, he can't be great. Furtwangler was apparently loved by the Berlin Phil players. I mean only to say that I don't think there is a necessary nexus between visually entertaining conducting, or being loved by orchestra members, and making great music.
I recently read an excellent novel that touches on some of these issues, Variations on the Beast, by Henry Grinberg. It appears to be loosely inspired by Karajan's career. I recommend it.
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Did any of you hear his M-1? It may be the first performance of Movement iii as sweet and lovely salon music. It was probably also the first pianissimo opening of Movement iv.
Gag, choke. Does the kid know Mahler? To paraphrase Dorothy Parker, "Tonstant wistener may frow up."
. & '
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Those of you who care to may have the opportunity to experience Dudamel's Adams/M1 concert without the distraction/addition of the visual element -- it's being broadcast on public radio in the US. In Southern California, it will be heard on KUSC this evening, Oct. 17, at 6 p.m. Other local public radio stations will also broadcast it. See http://symphonycast.publicradio.org/
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It will take some time for a comprehensive verdict to be made on Dudamel. By "comprehensive", I mean that he will have to guest-conduct the big name orchestras in the US and in Europe, and then and only then can a decent assessment of him be made, both from orchestra players and the press at those venues. One DVD of a Mahler symphony isn't enough to establish him as a significant name to be reckoned with. I've seen him on YouTube, but from what I saw, I too, can't see what all the excitement is about.
One conductor I had high hopes for, who I saw a few years ago at the Washington National Symphony conducting the Tchaikovsky 6th was Mikko Franck, but as of late, I believe illness has sidelined him from his music making. I subsequently purchased his recording of the work, which to most everyone here (including Barry) will sound incredibly slow, particularly the rousing scherzo movement. More to topic, I downloaded Franck's Mahler 5th with the London Philharmonic from the OperaShare site, and it too, is slow as molasses. But despite the slow tempi in both works, Franck exhibits incredible control, and that was visibly evident in the live Tchaikovsky 6th I saw him conduct. He conducts from a chair, but when he wants to build climaxes and get the orchestra to do as he wants them to, he gradually rises from his chair, and that increases the attention level of his players. His beat and conducting is only what is necessary to get the orchestra to do what he wants them to do, but not as minimal as a Reiner or Boehm. Franck was supposed to come to Washington again this past June to conduct the Strauss Eine Alpensinfonie, but for some unknown reason, he was substituted by another conductor substituting Eine Alpensinfonie with Also sprach Zarathustra (again, illness?).
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Hello,
I do not post very often. But for once I have clear words to write.
In 2008 I was in Lucerne for Mahler 2 conducted by Dudamel and played by "his" orchestra. It was a public triumph and a very poor musical performance (disgusting...). Then,as scheduled, I went to Salzburg and I decided to sell my tickets for the Dudamel performance of Beethoven triple (Argerich) and Mussorgsky's Pictures and, to shorten my stay in Salzburg, to sell also my tickets for the Berlin philharmonic performance under Rattle. The Lady at the Box office was very happy to get return tickets for Dudamel's concert ("It's already sold!!!") but she refused to take my returns tickets for the Berlin Philharmonic performance, even for free.
So is the new musical world seen from Salzburg.
Since, I avoid Dudamel and all the business around (after all business is the key word here, not music).
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For those interested, the M1 audio is available as an iTunes exclusive - not sure if it will ever make it to CD (the other Dudamel/LA concerts didn't).
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I've watched most of the concert. I found the second movement of the M1 a little too slow for my tastes, but overall, I liked the performance as a whole. The toughie is I usually judge performances as video vs. video and recording vs. recording. So, while it was nice, it doesn't displace any of my favorite audio only recordings. It was much better than the Maazel M1 with NY a couple years back.
I consider myself a huge John Adams fan. He's not only my favorite living composer, but one of my favorite composers...period. However, despite some nice moments, City Noir didn't do much for me. At his best, you can feel a symphonic scope in most of his large scale orchestral works. But this was more intellectually satisfying than emotionally satisfying. I could appreciate that Adams was tipping his hat to Hollywood composers, jazz, and pulp fiction, but there wasn't much else there besides homage. Bummer. I may try another sit-through, but we'll see.
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An old topic I just noticed...I was there at Lucerne too, and I fully agree with what you say: Dudamel's architectural grasp was equal to 0. The concert was a triumph, yeah (public-wise...critics were softer), but judging from what I saw before and after the concert, a good part of the public wasn't from Lucerne or even from Switzerland (other said...there were many, many ppl from Venentuela and they weren't a silent public for sure). Hagmann in the Neue Zürcher Zeitung perfectly reported how the concert was and how the current Dudamel situation is.
As for Dudamel, so far he always failed to particularly impress me...he seems busier trying to look brilliant at all costs on everything he conducts (last year's La Valse was so vulgar sounding to reach ridicolousness) at the expense of everything else, something which can work on some music (the Alpine Symphony he just performed at Lucerne wasn't that bad) but not on a Mahler Symphony or pretty much on everything which reuires some depth...I wonder how long this is going to be enough for him to be successful.
L'll give him another chance this year with Dvorak's 9th with the Wiener Philharmoniker, but I'm not expecting miracles. My guess is that these will come with Mahler'9th from Abbado, but let's see...
Hello,
I do not post very often. But for once I have clear words to write.
In 2008 I was in Lucerne for Mahler 2 conducted by Dudamel and played by "his" orchestra. It was a public triumph and a very poor musical performance (disgusting...). Then,as scheduled, I went to Salzburg and I decided to sell my tickets for the Dudamel performance of Beethoven triple (Argerich) and Mussorgsky's Pictures and, to shorten my stay in Salzburg, to sell also my tickets for the Berlin philharmonic performance under Rattle. The Lady at the Box office was very happy to get return tickets for Dudamel's concert ("It's already sold!!!") but she refused to take my returns tickets for the Berlin Philharmonic performance, even for free.
So is the new musical world seen from Salzburg.
Since, I avoid Dudamel and all the business around (after all business is the key word here, not music).
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He's going to need time to season, and maybe that'll happen. Right now, he's young, energetic, and probably not in full control of his over-wrought emotions (I should talk). My main complaint with the inaugural concert wasn't so much with the Mahler first - which wasn't the greatest, but not bad either - but with the over-long piece of junk composed by John Adams, disguised as film noir music (which it ain't), and supposedly an hommage to the less noble traits of a huge metropolitan area. Hmmmmm.
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Perhaps not surprisingly, I thought City Noir was quite a good piece if overlong. But John Adams fans won't call people who disagree with them nutty for disagreeing.
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I won't say that "City Noir" was a terrible piece. I think it could benefit the work to cut it down to just the third movement - easily the most exciting of the three. It has none of the melodic profile that the scores to the old film noirs had. I'm not suggesting that Adams was trying to copy Waxman, Steiner, Hermann, or any of the other classic Hollywood film composers. But without some thematic marker along the way, it just sounds like a long exercise in orchestration. In fact, in many of the noirs, themes are used almost like Wagnerian leitmotifs. I frankly hear more concentration and organization in the series of "Notations" by Boulez. Willfully naive, I suppose ;)