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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: barry guerrero on October 17, 2009, 05:15:10 AM

Title: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: barry guerrero on October 17, 2009, 05:15:10 AM
It's a two-disc set. It's not going to be cheap. The redbook CD version will run about $25, while the sacd/cd hybrid runs $30. There's no coupling. However, it appears that Haitink is not longer dragging his feet. I - 21:12; II - 10:09; III - 11:09: IV - 4:59 (that's a tad slow); IV - 34:33 (not fast, but not too dragged out either).

Maybe all of my complaining has gotten through (?)   ;)
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: James Meckley on October 17, 2009, 05:24:02 AM
Speaking of the CSO Resound series, Berkshire now lists the Haitink CSO Mahler 6 SACD/CD hybrid two-disc set for $13.98, should anyone be interested. It's item No. 142450.

James
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: waderice on October 17, 2009, 01:45:57 PM
It's a two-disc set. It's not going to be cheap. The redbook CD version will run about $25, while the sacd/cd hybrid runs $30. There's no coupling. However, it appears that Haitink is not longer dragging his feet. I - 21:12; II - 10:09; III - 11:09: IV - 4:59 (that's a tad slow); IV - 34:33 (not fast, but not too dragged out either).

Maybe all of my complaining has gotten through (?)   ;)

Maybe Berkshire might eventually sell the Haitink M2 at a reduced price as they are doing the M6? ;D Agreed, the CSO Resound recordings are for deep pockets.  The performances ARE well-played, regardless of what one might think of the conductor's interpretation.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: barry guerrero on October 17, 2009, 05:34:36 PM
Perhaps, but is there a shortage of really well performed recordings of ANY Mahler symphony? Not really. Besides, his CSO M6 may be well played from a purely technical standpoint, but it's also not the slightest bit frightening or "expressionistic" in the classic German sense of the word. It's just long, slow, and sometimes pretty.

And, on top of that, because of the rather wide but shallow stage in Chicago, the trumpets sound as though they make little or no distinction between mezzoforte, forte, or fortissimo. It's all just equally loud, and it often times buries tons of woodwind and string detail. Their woodwinds and percussion aren't the best by any means either (listen to the horrendously out-of-tune clarinet shriek at the very end of the first movement on Haitink's CSO M3). So far, it's been an incredibly disappointing series.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: John Kim on October 17, 2009, 05:52:06 PM
Whatever reservations there might be, I like Haitink's CSO M6th very much. The SACD sound is fabulous, the playing marvelous. I slightly prefer Haitink's live LSO concert over this one because the London concert was tad more intense and more flexible in tempos, but the basic idea in the reading is essentially the same in the two performances.

OTOH, I didn't care much for his CSO M3rd or M1st.

OTOH, I like his CSO Shosy 4th very much.

John,
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: waderice on October 17, 2009, 06:54:40 PM
Because of the rather wide but shallow stage in Chicago, the trumpets sound as though they make little or no distinction between mezzoforte, forte, or fortissimo. It's all just equally loud, and it often times buries tons of woodwind and string detail. Their woodwinds and percussion aren't the best by any means either (listen to the horrendously out-of-tune clarinet shriek at the very end of the first movement on Haitink's CSO M3). So far, it's been an incredibly disappointing series.

I remember seeing a quote somewhere many years ago, that one of the non-brass players in the CSO made the comment that "Reiner would never have let the brass 'scream' as they do under Solti".  Unfortunately, that tendency has seemed to carry over.  Hopefully, Muti will correct that.  The shallow stage may accentuate the problem, but a sensible conductor would ask someone to sit in a strategic spot in the auditorium and have that individual assess whether or not the balance of the various instrumental sections in a given work is adequate to meet the composer's wishes.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: Leo K on October 18, 2009, 05:30:38 AM
I still enjoy Haitink's CSO M3 and M6 from this series.


--Todd
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: cilea on October 20, 2009, 05:56:14 AM
Maybe a bit OOT, but it seems that we'll get a new Bruckner 2 with the CSO under Muti sometime next year...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-1019-csooct19,0,1736304.column (Look at the last line.)
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: akiralx on October 20, 2009, 08:29:16 AM
Maybe a bit OOT, but it seems that we'll get a new Bruckner 2 with the CSO under Muti sometime next year...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-1019-csooct19,0,1736304.column (Look at the last line.)

Great, I have a pirate of his 2008 Vienna B2 and it is wonderful, Bruckner con amore, but idiomatic...
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: chris on October 21, 2009, 05:25:55 AM
Maybe a bit OOT, but it seems that we'll get a new Bruckner 2 with the CSO under Muti sometime next year...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-1019-csooct19,0,1736304.column (Look at the last line.)


I was the Friday concert and there were definitely far more mics set up than normal.  I know they recorded Bruckner 8 with Haitink last year as well.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: barry guerrero on October 23, 2009, 07:23:12 PM
Good. And my point about Haitink isn't that he's a horrible person or a bad conductor even. It's that he seems to have little if anything new to say about Mahler, that he hasn't said just as well or better previously. The fact that it's with Chicago isn't enough reason for people to just jump up and down while standing in place. Why couldn't the CSO Resound people hold off for some new blood to get a crack at a Mahler with the Chicagoans? Are they going to let Muti do any Mahler at all? What little he has done, happens to have been very good. But why not let one of the many guest conductors have a shot at it? I really don't think that they're doing any great favors to the legacy of the CSO by simply pumping these out.

I really wish that I had never said anything negative about Haitink's M6 recording with the L'Orchestre de National France, because it's positively electric in comparison to his Chicago snooze-job.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: sbugala on October 23, 2009, 09:43:05 PM
Maybe a bit OOT, but it seems that we'll get a new Bruckner 2 with the CSO under Muti sometime next year...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-1019-csooct19,0,1736304.column (Look at the last line.)


Finally! I might actually buy this one. The only other CSO recording that's drawn my interest is their Shostakovich 4th with Haitink.  It's good, but my friend may have over-hyped it, because I was expecting better. 

As much as I like late Bruckner, I really like the B2.
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: cilea on November 11, 2009, 12:52:25 PM
If you have access to Naxos Music Library, the disc (as well as the other CSO Resound releases) has been added into it recently.

According to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra press release of November 3, the U.S. release date of the disc is November 17 and international date November 30.
It is also stated in the same press release that the CSO Resound has a new distribution agreement with Naxos of America. This should make especially the SACD versions more easily available.

http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/press/press_release_2009-11-03.pdf
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: Leo K on November 11, 2009, 07:01:11 PM
If you have access to Naxos Music Library, the disc (as well as the other CSO Resound releases) has been added into it recently.

According to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra press release of November 3, the U.S. release date of the disc is November 17 and international date November 30.
It is also stated in the same press release that the CSO Resound has a new distribution agreement with Naxos of America. This should make especially the SACD versions more easily available.

http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/press/press_release_2009-11-03.pdf

Thanks for the heads up here...looking forward to this release...especially the SACD.


--Todd
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: cilea on November 16, 2009, 06:57:55 AM
Haitink has recently recorded the B9 with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (for CSO Resound).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-1114-cso-ovnnov14,0,4276210.column

(The review above contains some interesting comments regarding the stage arrangements made for the concerts being recorded.)
Title: Re: Finally, Haitink's timings up to tempo (M2 on CSO Resound)
Post by: Leo K on November 16, 2009, 08:49:51 AM
I'm really looking forward to this Bruckner 9...thanks for the heads up!


--Todd