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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Michael on January 19, 2010, 01:11:01 AM
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Hi,
I have the original Lenny/VPO Mahler 6/Kindertirtinlieter disc issued in 1989 or 1990. I notice on iTunes that there is a series of Lenny/VPO Mahler recordings, apparently the same ones, but issued in 2005. Does anyone know if these were remastered at all...is there any improvement?
Thanks
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I'm not certain about which set you're referring here. Any actual full set of Lennie/VPO doing Mahler would be the video/laserdisc/DVD set (of which the M2 is with the LSO). I don't beleive this set was ever released on commercial CD though. Lennie recorded a few symphonies (including M6, plus M5 and M8 IIRC) with the VPO in his DG-labeled CD cycle. The remainder of the set was with the NYPO and RCOA.
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You must be referring to Lenny's old cycle with NYPO??
Yes, it was remastered a few times in the past. But the latest remastering that came out in 2008 or 2009 has the best sound quality of them all. I heard these remastered versions became a backbone for the Japanese SACD edition. I heard both the SACD and this version and found little difference. So, you can safely invest $60 something on it.
John,
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Yes, DG did remaster those. 2005 is probably from the third issuing of the Bernstein/DG performances, but the remastering is probably the same as those on the second issue of them, which I believe came out around 1990 (I may have this date wrong). Anyway, they sound a tad less "bright" on top, and have just a tad more depth and stage presence to the sound. The difference isn't great, but it's enough to make that set slightly more enjoyable.
Barry
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You must be referring to Lenny's old cycle with NYPO??
Yes, it was remastered a few times in the past. But the latest remastering that came out in 2008 or 2009 has the best sound quality of them all. I heard these remastered versions became a backbone for the Japanese SACD edition. I heard both the SACD and this version and found little difference. So, you can safely invest $60 something on it.
John,
I didn't know this John! I was thinking how much easier and cheaper it would be to get this release here in the states instead of the SACD's from Japan. When I get my tax returns I think I'll spring for it. Thanks!
--Todd
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tKWrrM7PL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
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Well John and Todd, I'm glad that my topic helped someone, even if my question was a little unclear. ;-)
I am actually talking about the 2005 issuing of the Bernstein/DG Mahler recordings--some of them with the VPO, some with the RCOA, and others from the LSO? Anyway, that set is what I am referring to. I currentlly have the Bernstein/VPO M6 that was released in 1989 or 1990; I am hoping the 2005 version will have better sonics? Barry, did you have a copy of the 1990 version also?
Take care,
Michael
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Ah, I see what you mean Michael,
I have not heard the 2005 masterings of the DG set, but I have heard a few of those new Japanese SHM-CD masterings of the DG cycle, in particular, the M3, M6 and M9, and they show a significant improvement, quite dramatic to my ears...but it is very expensive to aquire...around $300 or so from HMV Japan the last I checked!
Anyways, the sound may still be a little bright on this new mastering, but there is more room to breathe in the soundstage, quite beautiful, and I hear the M6, for example, in a new way. There is definitely more details (I'm listening to the M6 now).
John has also heard some of these recordings from the Japan SHM set and hopefully he will chime in.
--Todd
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Michael,
1. Except for M8th I have all of the original individual releases of the Lenny/DG Mahler cycle that came out in 80s.
2. I also have the digitally remastered version of the same recordings that came out in 1998:
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Orchestral-Bernstein/dp/B00000DI2T/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1263966962&sr=1-2
It is a 16 CD set.
3. I DON'T have the 2005 remastered version you're mentioning, BUT as Todd said I have heard a few of the Japanese SHM-CD editions such as M3, M5, M6, M9.
4. Apart from these, I also have individual recordings of the M2 & M9 issued in Japan (Japanese licensed versions) a long time ago. They have the same cover photos as thel domestic and European releases. I am not sure though if they were digitally remastered or not but they sound really good.
Here is my overall ranking in sound:
3 => 4 => 2 > 1
For example, in 2. there is more ambiance and warmth, less digital shrill, a better sonic stage than in 1.
The differences are subtle and sometimes insignificant. But in the case of the M7 and M9, it's worth looking for the newly remastered CDs.
That's all I can say.
John,
P.S. My guess is that the 2005 version should sound similar to 2.
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I have not hear the remastered DG Bernstein. I have, in cds and vinyl, the 80s releases.
But I want to say that the SHM-CD I have heard ( in other works not the Mahler/Bernstein), are extremelly good. You listen in a new way, as Leo K says.
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You must be referring to Lenny's old cycle with NYPO??
Yes, it was remastered a few times in the past. But the latest remastering that came out in 2008 or 2009 has the best sound quality of them all. I heard these remastered versions became a backbone for the Japanese SACD edition. I heard both the SACD and this version and found little difference. So, you can safely invest $60 something on it.
John,
Thanks for helping me save money to not buy the Japanese SACDs, if there's little difference in sound quality between them and the Carnegie Hall reissue. I bought the Carnegie Hall reissue a while back at the $60 price and like the improved sound. BTW, the same set in the gift shop at Carnegie Hall itself in NYC costs $90!
Wade
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Following up on John's numbering system, I have much of Set 1 via individual CD releases and also the Boxed Set of Set 2. Set 2 is supposed to be a remastering of Set 1. I cannot say that Set 2 sounds better than Set 1, but it is certainly LOUDER. I've considered buying one of the mini-boxes of Set 3 - specifically the ones with M5-7 - just to see if there is any difference.
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Following up on John's numbering system, I have much of Set 1 via individual CD releases and also the Boxed Set of Set 2. Set 2 is supposed to be a remastering of Set 1. I cannot say that Set 2 sounds better than Set 1, but it is certainly LOUDER. I've considered buying one of the mini-boxes of Set 3 - specifically the ones with M5-7 - just to see if there is any difference.
Scott,
I too am curious to hear the 2005 mini sets. But I bet that they couldn't sound as nearly good as the Japanese remasterings I heard. As I said, even the first (individual) Japanese releases of these recordings sound markedly better than the 1. and 2.
John,
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Looks like yet another set is coming soon in Japan:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3733659
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Looks like yet another set is coming soon in Japan:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3733659
It's a European release-one of the hundrends 'reborn' material-with ugly covers and questionable sound quality.
I wonder why Europeans and Americans can not at last learn something from the Japanese. These guys release cds with original covers and wonderful sound.
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Is there any way the Japanese remasterings can be found as individual CDs? I am mainly looking for M6 and M9.
Thanks,
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I guess I got all my dates wrong. This 16 cd DG box set must have been issued in the early or middle 1990's. The whole set has been assigned the number 459 080-2. On the bottom of the box, it does say "digitally remastered", and it truly sounds it to me. Each of the paper slip-sleeves (contained in three boxes with a large slipsleeve over them) has one of the great, classic Mahler photos on them. It's for that reason alone that I've decided never to part with this box, although I do own the Gilbert Kaplan hardbound book of great Mahler photos. Anyway, here is is the Amazon page for it:
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Orchestral-Bernstein/dp/B00000DI2T/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1264053599&sr=1-8
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Thanks Barry.
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Is there any way the Japanese remasterings can be found as individual CDs? I am mainly looking for M6 and M9.
Thanks,
I tried hmv.co.jp but those individual Japanese releases all seem to be gone :-\.
John,
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Thanks for checking, John. :)
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Today, I listened to the separate Japanese licensed issue of the Lenny/RCO/DG M9th CDs again. The sound is wonderful with much less amount of digital glares that marred the original domestic and European releases from the mid 80s. It definitely has more warmth and depth, ambiance and a slight bit of dark timbre that didn't exist in the domestic version. I think in this sense it sounds even better than the one included in the remastered 16 CDs set.
John,
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The sound is wonderful with much less amount of digital glares that marred the original domestic and European releases from the mid 80s. It definitely has more warmth and depth
This is true for almost all the japanese pressings.
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Take a look at:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/DG/4778668
Lenny's entire DG cycle available for just $48.00!! :o.
John,
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Take a look at:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/DG/4778668
Lenny's entire DG cycle available for just $48.00!! :o.
John,
WOW!! I wonder if this is the latest remastering?
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Take a look at:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/DG/4778668
Lenny's entire DG cycle available for just $48.00!! :o.
John,
WHAT? I'm so tempted to spring for it. Looks like Feb 1st is the release date. Hmmm...decisions, decisions. Perhaps with tax return money. :P
--Todd
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The price is great, but what's with that cover?!? Also, it looks as though they must have left out the song cycles, including the James King/Dietreich F-D./Vienna Phil. "DLvdE" (Decca) that was including the earlier boxes.
Barry