gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: sbugala on January 31, 2011, 05:46:27 AM
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I'll be attending this Friday (Feb 4) evening, but Saturday's (Feb 5) concert will be broadcast live over the net at 8p.m. Central time at http://www.stlpublicradio.org/programs/symphony.php
According to the program notes: http://www.stlsymphony.org/notes/1011/20110204.pdf the movement order will be Andante/Scherzo. When Franz Welser-Most did it live here in 1998, it was Scherzo/Andante.
I have high hopes for this concert, and hope that a severe winter storm which will hit here Monday and Tuesday will have no bearing later in the week. I've upgraded my seat, since they don't perform this work very often.
As an aside, the orchestra is expected to release their schedule for next season, so I'll report any Mahler news for 2011-12. The M2 is still to come for THIS season in April.
I imagine with it being streamlined, sound won't be out of this world, but I look forward to your thoughts, if you listen in, too. I'll be taping it off the radio (KWMU 90.7 FM) onto videotape. It usually sounds great in this format...far better than a standard audio cassette.
Best,
Steven
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I couldn't get to this one, but will be there on April 9th for the 2nd.
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I hope to hear Bychkov/Vienna Phil. do M6 in Berkekely near the end of Feburary. That should happen, considering that I work right across the street, two days per week.
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I couldn't get to this one, but will be there on April 9th for the 2nd.
I'll see if that's the night I'll be there, too. If so, we can greet each other at intermission again.
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I hope to hear Bychkov/Vienna Phil. do M6 in Berkekely near the end of Feburary. That should happen, considering that I work right across the street, two days per week.
Very cool! Hopefully, we'll both have excellent concert experiences.
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I couldn't get to this one, but will be there on April 9th for the 2nd.
I'll see if that's the night I'll be there, too. If so, we can greet each other at intermission again.
That would be fun. I am some where up in the Grand Tier, got the ticket when they had a 1 day half price sale on line.
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Here's a link to the orchestra's video blog. The box seems bigger the one I saw in 1998, which was horizontal, rather than vertical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piCs75zRom0&feature=player_embedded
I was kinda hoping they'd "test" it out in the footage, but it's stuff from the scherzo. Enjoy!
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I enjoyed the performance, this evening. Contrary to the program notes, the movement order was scherzo/andante. I felt the first three movements might have been a little too restrained or "classical." but the last movement pulled out all the stops. I thought the Hero might actually prevail this time. ;) Recently retired principal trumpet Susan Slaughter was back in an auxiliary role, and she sounded fine.
Hammerblows (2) were HUGE with the guy stepping halfway onto a pretty tall ladder to wield the hammer against the box.
I may have said it before, but I sometimes I wish I could hear things for the first time again, only because I've become kinda critical over the years. However, the last movement was exciting and powerful enough to count this as a winning experience. I'll look forward to Barry's thoughts if he does hear Bychkov do this with the VPO live...and anyone who hears the internet broadcast Sat night.
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Interesting that Bychkov performed it S/A. Maybe he switched his mind before the performance. First three movements "classical", with "all stops out" for the finale works quite well for me.
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Review from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch of last night's Mahler Sixth:
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/arts-and-theatre/reviews/article_5bb04d84-316e-11e0-8498-00127992bc8b.html
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I just listened to the live webcast of this over KWMU and was immensely impressed. This was among the most musical and logical presentations of Six that I've ever heard—beautifully shaped with all of the tempo adjustments seeming utterly organic and logical. Wish I could have heard it live.
The orchestra's playing was very impressive and the engineering was fine, though a couple of dozen brief audio dropouts on the webcast marred the experience.
For those keeping score, the Andante (movement iii again tonight) was exactly 15:00, and the second hammer blow was reinforced by the optional percussion. The blows must have been devastating in the hall—they caused the brick-wall limiters to clamp down rather severely on the webcast.
Anyone else listen tonight?
James
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James,
I'm glad you got to hear it! I taped it from the radio unto videotape. I just have yet to play it back. Videotape works well for its length, and reasonably good sound quality.
Regards,
Steven
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Steven,
Did you hear the pre-recorded interview with Mr. Bychkov that aired immediately after the concert? He had some interesting things to say about his decision to revert to the Scherzo–Andante order.
James
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Not yet! I just played part of my tape back last night. I should've been more careful checking my reception, since there's a minor buzz an easy adjustment could have prevented. Still, nothing will top the memory of actually hearing it live.
I hope to check it out later tonight or maybe tomorrow night.
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Steven,
Did you hear the pre-recorded interview with Mr. Bychkov that aired immediately after the concert? He had some interesting things to say about his decision to revert to the Scherzo–Andante order.
James
I'd be very interested in hearing his explanation (or your summary thereof) if you would be so kind.
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I'd be very interested in hearing his explanation (or your summary thereof) if you would be so kind.
My summary would go something like this (and I welcome Steven's additions and corrections after he listens to his recording, since I didn't take notes):
1) Mr. Bychkov first conducted the Mahler Sixth about 30 years ago and has been interested in the work ever since.
2) When he first performed the work, he used the Scherzo–Andante movement order, which was the "official" one at the time. He said he liked that order because it placed the tranquility and peace of the Andante as an emotional "oasis" just before the tumult and upheaval of the Finale. On the other hand, he said he was troubled by the sameness of the end of the first movement and the beginning of the Scherzo, making it seem like he was conducting one gigantic opening movement.
3) When he was engaged to conduct the present series of concerts in St. Louis—in view of the new Critical Edition of the Sixth (Kubik, 2010)—he anticipated using the now-official Andante–Scherzo order, and had the orchestra print programs which reflected that choice, although he confessed during this interview that he hadn't entirely made up his mind.
4) As he began to rehearse the work and experiment with options, he decided that the new order didn't work as well as the old one, so he reverted to the Scherzo–Andante order at the eleventh hour. I believe he also said (and perhaps Steven can clarify this) that he considered doing Scherzo–Andante on the February 4 concert and Andante–Scherzo on February 5. He obviously didn't do that; Scherzo–Andante was done at both concerts.
James
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I knew it!
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I'd be very interested in hearing his explanation (or your summary thereof) if you would be so kind.
2) When he first performed the work, he used the Scherzo–Andante movement order, which was the "official" one at the time. He said liked that order because it placed the tranquility and peace of the Andante as an emotional "oasis" just before the tumult and upheaval of the Finale. On the other hand, he said he was troubled by the sameness of the end of the first movement and the beginning of the Scherzo, making it seem like he was conducting one gigantic opening movement.
James
Thanks. That pretty much summarizes my own personal opinion on the matter too.
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I'd be very interested in hearing his explanation (or your summary thereof) if you would be so kind.
My summary would go something like this (and I welcome Steven's additions and corrections after he listens to his recording, since I didn't take notes):
1) Mr. Bychkov first conducted the Mahler Sixth about 30 years ago and has been interested in the work ever since.
2) When he first performed the work, he used the Scherzo–Andante movement order, which was the "official" one at the time. He said he liked that order because it placed the tranquility and peace of the Andante as an emotional "oasis" just before the tumult and upheaval of the Finale. On the other hand, he said he was troubled by the sameness of the end of the first movement and the beginning of the Scherzo, making it seem like he was conducting one gigantic opening movement.
3) When he was engaged to conduct the present series of concerts in St. Louis—in view of the new Critical Edition of the Sixth (Kubik, 2010)—he anticipated using the now-official Andante–Scherzo order, and had the orchestra print programs which reflected that choice, although he confessed during this interview that he hadn't entirely made up his mind.
4) As he began to rehearse the work and experiment with options, he decided that the new order didn't work as well as the old one, so he reverted to the Scherzo–Andante order at the eleventh hour. I believe he also said (and perhaps Steven can clarify this) that he considered doing Scherzo–Andante on the February 4 concert and Andante–Scherzo on February 5. He obviously didn't do that; Scherzo–Andante was done at both concerts.
James
I agree with everything you've said. I think it's pretty cool if a conductor is thinking about things until the last moment, within reason. He did keep the order Scherzo-Andante for both concerts, but I was kinda hoping he'd do a switch, as well.
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This is way late, but I'll be curious if things kinda hold the same when Bychkov does the 6th with the Vienna PO: http://kdhx.org/music/reviews/concert-review-passion-and-precision-in-mahlers-symphony-no-6-by-the-st-louis-symphony-february-4-2011?print=1&tmpl=component
It's from a St. Louis Community Radio Station.
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Scott,
I know you may not agree with what I'm about to say, but the reasons seem pretty darn clear and logical to me. Historical evidence for A/S is rather slim at best. Obviously, there was some controversy, and still some doubt in Mahler's mind. S/A works better from a key relationship scheme, if nothing else. It's been pointed out that following the first movement with the scherzo is rather like beginning the symphony all over again, in A-minor. But those same folks fail to notice that the scherzo dissolves and slinks off into nothingness, pretty much the same way that the finale does (with one obvious big difference, of course). All that ALSO happens in A-minor. The beginning of the finale, basically centered around C, is much more shocking after the Eb major resolution at the end of the andante. If this weren't true - from a purely musical basis, that is - then an entire generation of conductors wouldn't have been suckered into performing the symphony in S/A order to begin with. My two cents.
B.
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I guess the old A/S vs S/A argument is still rich fodder for the boards. Looks like it is still where I left it before I went on hiatus. How you doing Barry?
I like Bychkov a lot. I'm not sure why he hasn't been picked up by a major American orchestra. Anyone who has heard or seen the DVDs of his work with the Koln orchestra knows the man is an outstanding conductor. And he married well.
"Historical evidence for A/S is rather slim at best." Sure -- that's why the critical edition uses it.
"still some doubt in Mahler's mind." It's good to be able to read the mind of a dead man. A rare ability that I missed out on.
"an entire generation of conductors wouldn't have been suckered into performing the symphony in S/A order to begin with." That's obvious.
This argument is rather like scientists vs theists. No amount of real evidence is ever enough to overcome belief.
It would be better, I think, if everyone just said "I like hearing it this way" and leave it at that. No one can argue about a person's individual preference -- you either like it or not.
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I like Bychkov a lot. I'm not sure why he hasn't been picked up by a major American orchestra.
Oh, I'm sure there are a LOT of major American orchestras who would like to have Bychkov as music director. Also Gergiev. And one orchestra who had Temirkanov as director was Baltimore. Temirkanov no longer conducts regularly in America. Though these guys make much money in Europe and elsewhere, they don't say out loud that they don't want to come to America as director of a major American orchestra. The reason they don't is because of American taxes biting into the money they take in working here, just as any other American. There are numerous stories of foreign-born conductors and singers from years past who had problems with the IRS on unpaid taxes. Unless you're a really big name with a really big contract and you're of a nationality other than American, there are not many non-Americans willing nowadays to take on the leadership of a major American orchestra. Word gets around between foreign-born conductors about the losses due to taxes if you become music director of a major American orchestra. In addition to the tax issue, foreign-born conductors contemplating leadership of an American orchestra take into consideration the amount of work they would be expected to take on as music director of an American orchestra, and balance that against the money they make after taxes. In most cases, it's more lucrative for them to be music director of an orchestra other than in America.
Wade
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Bychkov is a U.S. citizen and has been for decades.
Personal income taxes are higher in other countries than they are in the U.S., especially for those in the highest income brackets. Actually, personal income taxes for the rich are low in the U.S. compared to most European countries. In fact, if I remember correctly, only citizens of Canada and Norway, of all the modern Western countries, pay lower income tax than the U.S. Most European countries are 40% to 60%. In the Netherlands, it's 70%.
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Scott,
I know you may not agree with what I'm about to say,
B.
Nope, you are actually preaching to the choir here. I have ALWAYS greatly preferred S-A order. In fact I re-burn some of my favorite M6's in S-A order - Abbado/Lucerne and Mackerras are two such re-ordered ones that I keep in my car.
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In a short interview aired on the broadcast of his performance of the Mahler 6th with the NYPO in about 1987, Klaus Tennstedt also made the argument for the audience's emotional need and consequently the effect of the symphony itself for the S/A sequence. The broadcast in better sound than the live LPO performance released last year is available here and there for download.
I heard a live Tennstedt Mahler 6 in London in 1983, and it was one of the most titanic performances of my life.
There are other US Tennstedt Mahler broadcasts that ought to be more available including a 7th and 9th from Philadelphia around 1986. While dynamics are somewhat compressed, they sound more vivid than the RFH and RAH live London recordings.
Tom in Vermont
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Tom, I do not have any Tennstedt Mahler recordings; but I heard a performance of the 6th conducted by him on XM/Sirius a few months ago. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing which version it was. The announcer only said it was Tennstedt conducting the LPO, which is not very specific.
Anyway, it was one of the best 6ths I ever heard. I'd love to get it if I knew which one it was. I assume everyone likes the live one over the studio one?
Dave
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There are two commercially available Tennstedt 6ths just now, the studio EMI version, and an LPO Live label performance from August 1983. The LPO live is from the Royal Albert Hall Proms, with somewhat vague sound, though acceptable, and more gripping than the studio version. Tennstedt could be completely overwhelming in performance. There is also a pretty good sounding Mahler 2 from LPO Live, remastered and or engineered by Tony Faulkner, who has been one of the best audio engineers in the UK for a long time. I am pretty sure both the LPO live 6th and 2nd are available from Amazon and other US outlets as well as UK outlets.
There was an OP EMI issue of a live 6 and 7 that I haven't been able to find recently.
Tennstedt's best Mahler can be life changing. His concerts were legendary. As I noted before, there are some amazing Tennstedt live performances with US orchestras in the archives. I was able to find 5, 7, and 9 with Philadelphia and 6 with NYPO--all with rather good sound and impact.
Best,
Tom in Vermont