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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Michael on May 16, 2011, 12:00:04 PM
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Hi guys,
So, this year I am graduating high school. Well, rather, I am leaving high school and continuing on to a transition program for students who are blind or visually impaired.
I thought to myself that I wanted to get my teachers something from me and me only--not from my parents and I, but from I alone. But what to get? All of my teachers know how much music plays a role in my life, and they have, at one point or another, heard me talk about my love for Mahler--especially his Sixth and Ninth. Over the last two years, I have identified a lot with the Ninth--with its message of difficult trials, wonderful resolutions, and bittersweet farewells.
So I have pretty much decided to give a few staff members at school recordings of M9 as farewell gifts. And here is where you guys come in. I cannot decide what recording to give. I am very fond of the Rattle/BPO, but it is on two discs. I love the Bernstein/BPO, but that one is a bit extreme and the sound is not top-notch, to say nothing of the playing...particularly in the Finale. ;-) But for all my reservations, it is still an incredible recording. And then there is the Barbirolli...a one-disc recording of incredible intensity.
What would you guys recommend? For the orchestra director, I am going to get him either the Rattle and Bernstein or the Rattle and Barbirolli, perhaps all three. For my other teachers, who are less acquainted (or not acquainted at all) with Mahler, I want the most accessible version.
Thoughts?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Michael
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At the moment, the M9th I listen to and enjoy most is Ozawa's farewell concert with BSO on a Japanese Blu-ray disc. But it's not available domestically.
I don't like the Rattle as much as I do Karajan II. or Lenny/NYPO, Lenny/RCO/DG. Lenny's BPO version suffers from the sonics and the imperfect playing, so it's not on my list.
Neither is the Barbirolli which lacks Mahlerian idioms in the playing (time and again, it's the Berlin players!). And it feels too lightweight.
If you're looking for a single disc version, I'd go for either the Bernstein/NYPO/Sony or Solti/LSO/Decca (which may be hard to find).
Abbado's Berlin recording which is also on a single disc has been praised to heaven. It may well be an excellent M9th but the live sound is disappointing.
If you really want up-to-date SACD sound, try Gilbert/SPO/BIS. It sounds great although Gilbert's reading falls somewhat short in the first three movements.
But for me, the recordings that matter are Bernstein/NYPO/Sony, Bernstein/RCO/DG, Levine/PO/RCA, Ozawa/BSO/NHK (Blu-ray), Ozawa/BSO/Philips, Karajan/BPO/DG (live), Solti/LSO/Decca.
John,
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"If you really want up-to-date SACD sound, try Gilbert/SPO/BIS. It sounds great although Gilbert's reading falls somewhat short in the first three movements"
I totally disagree. I think it's easily the best single disc Mahler 9 out there.
Barry
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I think it's easily the best single disc Mahler 9 out there.
Barry
In terms of the sound and value (SACD on one disc! :o), Yes.
John,
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The LSO/Solti disc is available on Eloquence in Europe.
Grooves-inc have it at a very reasonable price with free postage worldwide :
Go to
http://www.grooves-inc.com/
and type solti georg/lso into the search box
Or check their eBay store item
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SOLTI-GEORG-LSO-SINFONIE-9-NEU-/170524199428?pt=B%C3%BCcher_Unterhaltung_Music_CDs&hash=item27b408ca04
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Michael,
A piece of advice for what it's worth: Although you love the M9, it's not the easiest accessible M symphony there is, and it could turn people off if they are not aquainted to Mahler. For those people I would suggest that you give them M4 instead. My $0.02.
Roffe
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I think the M9 is a difficult one to get into 1st off, but i would say ive never understood why people say the 4th is the one to start with, i think it depends entirely upon the personality of the person. For me the 4th was one of the last Mahler works that i got into, what got me into Mahler was M2 and M5. ;D
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...what got me into Mahler was M2 and M5. ;D
Ditto.
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I really like M9 as well, and think it would be a fine gift since that one means a lot to you personally.
One of my favorite single disc ones that is usually available on Amazon (US) is from Ancerl / Czech Philharmonic.
Cheers,
Herb
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If it is to be M9, and if you're prepared to stretch yourself [and perhaps be better remembered], I suggest the DVD of the Abbado/ Lucerne Festival. I've only seen the last movement, and would recommend it on that alone. Superb.
If you want them to get Mahler quicker, I always think of M1 first. There are so many good ones. I like Horenstein '69, Mitropoulos and Bernstein/Concertgebouw.
Re M9, btw, in the BBC Building a Library prog fairly recently, after comparing then-available versions, the reviewer did choose the Ancerl. Fwiw.
Ivor
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You may already be planning to do this, but along with your gift, a hand-written note about why you like the 9th and some hints what to listen for in each of the movements or the work as a whole would surely make this a very memorable gift!
Cheers,
Herb
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What a fabulous and heartfelt parting gift to give, Michael! Truly thoughtful and very personal.
I've always been partial to Giulini's M9 with Chicago on DG, and it's still my sentimental favorite. It's on 2 CDs and I think it's pretty hard to find now, but if you do decide on it, be sure to get the DG Originals version, as the the previous issue (on DG Galleria) had a major audio problem.
For a single-disc version in good sound, I'd probably go with the Gilbert on BIS. (John's comments notwithstanding. ;D )
Also the new DVD/Blu-ray of Abbado/Lucerne is fabulous.
Best wishes in your future endeavors!
Russell
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The 9th was actually the first Mahler symphony I go into. I bought the Walter recording on Odyssey back in the mid-70's:
(http://imageshack.us/m/801/661/mahler9walter.jpg)
I found it more "normal" (4 movements, no singing, etc) than Mahler's other symphonies. It was years before I got into the others.
Dave
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...
I've always been partial to Giulini's M9 with Chicago on DG, and it's still my sentimental favorite. It's on 2 CDs and I think it's pretty hard to find now, but if you do decide on it, be sure to get the DG Originals version, as the the previous issue (on DG Galleria) had a major audio problem.
For a single-disc version in good sound, I'd probably go with the Gilbert on BIS....
Russell
This Russ agrees with that Russell's observation/recommendation 100%!
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Regarding the Giuliani, I am of a minority opinion.
No matter how unique, 'warm and compassionate' Giulini's reading might be, I just can't live with the playing in this recording. At the time of the recording CSO was under the great influence of its music director, Georg Solti whose style was, as you know, 'punchy and meaty' especially when it comes to Mahler. I can hear this trace in this recording; too frequently the Chicago brass blow the hell of their instruments without being nicely blended with the rest of the orchestra. The strings are not as rich as they should be and occasionally they falter. Also, DG's recording was not one of their best; individual instruments are all clearly audible but I heard little body as a whole.
I put most of the blame on the orchestra and engineering, so no harm is done to the maestro! ;)
John,
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I've come to the conclusion that Chicago is THE most Overrated Mahler orchestra on the planet, while the Dresden Staatskapelle is THE most Underrated. Pittsburgh seems to climbing up at this time.
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I've come to the conclusion that Chicago is THE most Overrated Mahler orchestra on the planet, while the Dresden Staatskapelle is THE most Underrated. Pittsburgh seems to climbing up at this time.
Wholeheartedly agreed! ;) :D
I MUCH prefer the Dresden to the Chicago.
John,
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I think Chicago is the most overrated orchestra, period--not just for Mahler. (Nevertheless, I still love their M9 with Giulini.) Their reputation started with Solti's tenure (I vividly remember the sensationalized press at the time) and their overhyped recordings on Decca/London. I attended a Solti/CSO performance of the Bruckner 4 when they were visiting San Francisco many years ago--it was a pretty incredible concert, actually, but the brass section sounded as though they were trying to blow the roof off of Davies Symphony Hall. (And they very nearly did!)
Russell
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Not to jump on the bash-CSO-bandwagon, but I have to admit that though a horn player, I wasn't a fan of the Solti/CSO Strauss recording that I knew before I heard the Guilini recording of M9 (in '78 or '79 I think). In fact, I wasn't impressed by Mahler at the time after sampling many recordings from the university library's stacks of LPs (probably Karajan, Horenstein, Haitink). However, I received the Guilini M9 as a gift from my younger sister, and I listened to it straight through twice with head phones, and that recording was my 'Mahler epiphany'. Sure, the strings are thin at times (and wow were the cellos-with-tremolos weird in the early CD version), but it remains a favorite.
Regarding Gilbert's version, I tried all the usually-recommended single-disc versions, and his is the one that resonates with me.
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Overrated doesn't mean 'bad' - it just means what it says. I really think a big part of the problem is Orchestra Hall. I heard a series of three concerts of the CSO at Carnegie Hall, and they were far more pleasant to listen to than usual.