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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: hrandall on June 14, 2012, 07:53:04 PM

Title: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: hrandall on June 14, 2012, 07:53:04 PM
Now this looks like fun:

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/arts-a-entertainment/classical-musings/34449-the-original-beat-box-mahlers-hammerschlag-of-symphony-no-6 (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/arts-a-entertainment/classical-musings/34449-the-original-beat-box-mahlers-hammerschlag-of-symphony-no-6)

I can't wait for this next installment of Honeck / PSO's cycle to be released.

Cheers,
Herb
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 14, 2012, 08:24:29 PM
Looks good. That's becoming the standard these days: a wooden box with a sound-hole, stuck by a wooden mallet. It should work just fine. Should be an awesome M6 as well.

I guess they're going to do a three stroke version (?). But if you're going to bother to build the box, what the heck!

One point though: if you're going to reinstate the third hammerstroke, then you should also do the orginal (first version) orchestration surrounding that stroke. It's quite different.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 14, 2012, 09:37:21 PM
The sound of the Hammerschlag in M6 has always been a problem of how conductors perceive the sound to be.  Either the sound ends up being wimpy or a bloated bass.  I think it should be rather resonant and impactful.  This would be a good subject for me to research as to who has done it best thus far, but with most all of my Mahler recordings currently in storage, that will have to wait.

I've never seen exactly what various devices have been used, but the box with the hole makes sense.  Also, it probably should be raised a few inches on blocks on what hopefully is a wooden floor stage to allow the sound to resonate sufficiently.

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 15, 2012, 12:36:56 AM
"Also, it probably should be raised a few inches on blocks on what hopefully is a wooden floor stage to allow the sound to resonate sufficiently."

Makes perfect sense to me!

Just remember that the second stroke is usually performed with the optional doubling of tam-tam and cymbals. The issue is further complicated by the fact that the bass drum doubles the hammer on both strokes, regardless of whether the optional gong & cymbals are added to the second one. For a recording that is 'sans doublings', I think the hammer sounds pretty darn good on the Chailly/Concertgebouw one (Decca). 
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: brunumb on June 15, 2012, 04:11:34 AM
There's an interesting section on the hammer blows in this article on the 6th symphony:
Myth and Reality in Mahler's Sixth Symphony by Jeffrey Gantz
http://www.mahlerfest.org/mfXVI/notes_myth_reality.htm

Extract:
"Throughout the composition of the symphony, there were no hammer blows. For some period after its completion, in the summer of 1904, there were five; then there were three. By the summer of 1906, there were two. Three hammer blows were not an integral part of the Finale's conception, and they may not have been part of the MS for very long."

Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: brunumb on June 15, 2012, 04:19:50 AM
From this description of the hammer blows it's really hard to know exactly what they should sound like.
"...and the famous hammer, whose strokes were to be 'short, mighty but dull in resonance, with a non-metallic character, like the stroke of an axe'. "

I've always felt that the music should come to a halt, or somehow 'stagger' when the hammer strikes, as a natural response to a mighty blow.  But the music just swirls on without pause and the blow just sounds amongst it all.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 16, 2012, 12:44:58 AM
In my opinion, that's because the hammer doesn't signify the end to something, but rather the start of musical chaos and malice - like a dam bursting open. To me, it's about the release of pent-up energy.

Also, if you buy the Dover Edition score to M6 - which is of the FIRST VERSION - you'll see that there are three hammer-strokes.  Does that mean that Ratz or some other editor fiddled with them?  .    .    .   Who knows?  You'll also see that the orchestration surrounding the third stroke is somewhat different. Benjamin Zander recorded it that way, but then Telarc went too far by putting a sticker on the cover that said, "first recording of the original version" (or some such thing). That's not correct, as there are a great deal of other differences between the two versions than just the music surrounding the third stroke. What fools these mortals be!!
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: buffoto on June 16, 2012, 12:09:08 PM
My wife and I are driving down to Pittsburgh this afternoon for tonight's concert. Our first live M6. Been looking forward to this one for quite some time. Saw Honeck conduct M3 a couple of years ago and was very impressed with that performance. Wow, that hammerschlag looks like the real deal!
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Russ Smiley on June 16, 2012, 09:21:39 PM
Do share your impressions!
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: hrandall on June 18, 2012, 12:52:39 PM
Here's a review, that claims there were 5 hammer blows!

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/ae/music/honeck-pso-deliver-a-dramatic-reading-of-mahlers-sixth-640639/?p=0

Can't wait to hear the recording!

Cheers,
Herb
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on June 18, 2012, 04:47:35 PM
Here's a review, that claims there were 5 hammer blows!
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/ae/music/honeck-pso-deliver-a-dramatic-reading-of-mahlers-sixth-640639/?p=0


So it seems Honeck has "restored" the originally-planned (but never-performed) five hammer blow sequence into the revised version of the symphony, compounding the error of those who simply "restore" the final blow. I'm stunned.

I hope against hope that he'll actually make the first-ever (and much-needed) recording of the original orchestration—see the Dover or Eulenburg editions—and that the reviewer simply didn't notice or failed to mention it.

A hammer blow in the ninth measure will take some getting used to!

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: buffoto on June 19, 2012, 03:32:30 AM
My wife and I attended the Saturday night performance. The hammerschlag was struck only twice. I wonder if on Sunday afternoon Honeck decided to give it 3 blows to illustrate, over the course of a weekend, all 3 options for performance. And what a performance! Being familiar with at least 5 different interpretations of M6, two favorites being both the frenetic Lenny NYP and the more subdued Boulez VPO, Honeck's interpretation was really all its own. Remarkable. The entire orchestra rose to the occasion. Forceful, shining brass, great string playing. PSO is one of the best for sure. The way Honeck varied tempos within movements was interesting in the way it seemed entirely natural and right. This past February we heard David Robertson of the LSO (who was filling in for Boulez on short notice) conduct the Cleveland Orchestra in a performance of M5. From beginning to end the tempos were very slow and remained sluggish throughout each movement, theme, and bridge. This stretching everything out didn't work for me and it was the first time I ever wished for a Mahler symphony to come to a conclusion because I was tired and wanted to go to bed. Honeck's M6 was incredibly dramatic, but never ponderous.       

Unfortunately, we were not entirely able to savor the entire performance and emotional ride the way Mahler probably intended for it to be experienced. If someone were to ask you, fellow lover of Mahler's music, if there was going to have to be a cell phone go off in the audience, what would be the absolute worst time during the entire 80 minute or so masterpiece for it to ring? Yes, you guessed it! Horror upon horror, just seconds before the final note of the 4th movement is sounded, exactly at that moment when you're holding your breath waiting for that initial blasting fortissimo note sounding the final emphatic statement of the fate theme, RING RING RING RING!!
As the audience jumped to their feet with rapturous applause I was so bloody angry I turned around to confront the perpetrator of my discontent and expressed my feelings quite clearly. Now in retrospect, the entire experience was like a lost episode of Seinfeld.           
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Roffe on June 19, 2012, 05:08:32 AM
Why do people never learn? This guy destroyed the experience (at least to some degree) for all the several hundred in the audience. I get upset even if I wasn't there myself.

Roffe
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 19, 2012, 11:05:22 AM
Why do people never learn? This guy destroyed the experience (at least to some degree) for all the several hundred in the audience. I get upset even if I wasn't there myself.

Roffe
At least at every Baltimore Symphony concert in Strathmore Music Center in Rockville, MD, the management always verbally asks the audience (over their P.A. system) to turn off all electronic devices and silence signal watches before the concert begins.  Do they do that at Pittsburgh?  Such a request if mentioned only in the printed concert program isn't enough.

The next step to assure compliance against all such offenders might be to require all concert patrons to check such devices at the cloak room before entering the concert hall.  Could you imagine the logistical and traffic nightmare pre- and post-concert that would create?  And not to mention the likelihood of possible theft and loss.

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: hrandall on June 19, 2012, 01:57:34 PM
I vote for cell phone signal jammers in every concert hall! :)

Cell phone ringing, 5 or 20 hammer blows, I can't wait to hear the Honeck recording(s)!

Cheers,
Herb
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 20, 2012, 04:43:52 AM
Well, I can't wait for the Exton CD to come out. Anyway, regarding the five hammer-stroke business, many people confuse various bass drum whacks and tam-tam smashes as actually being hammer-strokes. Anyway, I've got to run.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Roffe on June 20, 2012, 04:50:56 AM
Wade wrote:
The next step to assure compliance against all such offenders might be to require all concert patrons to check such devices at the cloak room before entering the concert hall.  Could you imagine the logistical and traffic nightmare pre- and post-concert that would create?  And not to mention the likelihood of possible theft and loss.


Good idea. However, as you say, the logistics might become somewhat difficult. We'd probably have to show up an hour b4 the concert starts. We'll have to do with the verbal reminder.

Roffe
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 22, 2012, 02:58:14 AM
Here's a Youtube excerpt with Honeck himself discussing the hammer-strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=600ZUWMNSh8

He states that he was going to use three. Maybe there were none!?!
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on June 22, 2012, 05:08:55 AM
Most puzzling. So Manfred Honeck planned to use three blows (I wonder when that interview was given), yet we have reliable contemporaneous reports of five in one concert and two in another. I trust the reviewer and buffato, of course; it's hard to confuse a bass drum whack with a hammer blow when you're sitting in the concert hall and have visual confirmation of exactly what produced the sound you just heard.

Mr. Honeck is booked to conduct a concert at the Aspen Music Festival next month (Brahms PC #2 and Ein Heldenleben) and I know two students who'll be in his orchestra. I've asked them to gently inquire as to why his thinking on the hammer blow issue changed and, naturally, how many blows we can expect in the official recording. Report to follow.

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 22, 2012, 05:32:48 AM
Makes sense. But that's also assuming that - as you implied - the 'reporters' were keeping a close visual check. There are two spots in the finale where a forte bass drum 'thud' is doubled by a forte or fortissimo tam-tam stroke. One of those is about a minute or 90 seconds after the second hammer-stroke, and the other is shortly after the 'false victory parade' passage - just shortly before where the third hammer-stroke originally was (and sometimes gets reinstated).

Also, if the snare drummer - with the snares switched off (as they should be) - places a sharp accent at the beginning of his roll that's located at the very spot where the third hammer-stroke originally was, it can sound as though somebody picked up the hammer and struck it (only a bit softer, obviously). In other words, there's plenty that one could get aurally confused by.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on June 22, 2012, 06:17:04 AM
Certainly one doesn't always see a snare drummer begin a roll or a tam tam player strike his instrument when it's at or below waist level, but a fully-grown adult raising a big wooden mallet well above his head and bringing it down forcefully onto a large wooden box—as was done in the video—is pretty hard to miss, especially for a Mahler enthusiast keeping watch for such an event. Just my take.

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 23, 2012, 12:40:13 AM
Agreed! Thoroughly agreed.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: buffoto on June 23, 2012, 01:17:32 PM
Certainly one doesn't always see a snare drummer begin a roll or a tam tam player strike his instrument when it's at or below waist level, but a fully-grown adult raising a big wooden mallet well above his head and bringing it down forcefully onto a large wooden box—as was done in the video—is pretty hard to miss, especially for a Mahler enthusiast keeping watch for such an event. Just my take.

James
As mentioned in my earlier post, during the Saturday night performance there were only two hammer blows, and they occurred at the usual points in the score where I've heard them sounded a hundred times before. We were sitting in the balcony and I witnessed this with my own eyes and ears. It was actually hard to take your eyes off of the hammerschlag during any time in the performance as it rested so ominously in back of and to the left of the orchestra (from the audiences perspective). Knowing when the blows were going to occur, I trained my binoculars on the action as it happened. Believe me, even if you weren't looking directly at the performer and didn't see it happen, the tremendous sound the blows produced were so radically different from the sounds produced by the bass drum, tam-tam and tympani that there could be no mistake: there were only two strikes on that night.   
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 23, 2012, 07:50:39 PM
Thank you Buffoto. And please forgive me for implying that perhaps you or anybody may have confused events. I get a bit carried away because - for me, anyway - I'd rather go to go to a truly great M6 that had zero hammer-strokes than a mediocre one that had ten. Thus, I tend to NOT to take the issue too seriously (I'm more sensitive about movement order). I'm just happy that you got to see/hear such a great performance. Seriously.

Barry
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 23, 2012, 09:01:50 PM
This entire issue of the number of Hammerschlagen makes me wonder if some conductor someday will make alternate recordings of the finale with two, another with five, and a third one with three.  Not that any conductor would want to confuse the issue, but to clarify Mahler's thoughts at various times throughout the work's gestation.  What think the rest of you?

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 24, 2012, 02:42:13 AM
Well then, the obvious solution would be an MMO (Music Music One) issue of the finale in which you, the participant, provide your own hammer-strokes!!!!   8)

Also, there should be a mail order Heath Kit, build-your-own hammer and wooden box kit. Recycled lumber yards might be a good source also.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on June 24, 2012, 03:29:23 AM
This entire issue of the number of Hammerschlagen makes me wonder if some conductor someday will make alternate recordings of the finale with two, another with five, and a third one with three.  Not that any conductor would want to confuse the issue, but to clarify Mahler's thoughts at various times throughout the work's gestation.  What think the rest of you?

I'd be content with a properly-done recording of the three-hammer-blow version, but so far none has been forthcoming. Of course Ben Zander made a recording of the Sixth (Telarc, 2002) which includes two versions of the Finale, one with two hammer blows and one with three. Much was made of his having altered the orchestration in the region of the third blow in order to be true to Mahler's original intent. Unfortunately this was a halfway measure, at best. This has already been discussed here at length, but to briefly summarize:

There were three published versions of the Sixth Symphony during Mahler's lifetime, all released within the span of a year. Let's call them versions A, B, and C.

Version A (early 1906) included three hammer blows, a middle-movement order of Scherzo–Andante, and an orchestration throughout that is quite different from the one we're used to hearing. This is the version currently available from Eulenburg (Redlich, 1968).

Version B (mid-1906) was the same as Version A except that the middle movements are now Andante–Scherzo.

Version C (late 1906) had the third hammer blow removed and the orchestration revised in all four movements including the region where the third hammer blow had been. This is the version represented by the current Critical Edition (Kubik, 2010) and is what we're used to hearing in modern performances and recordings.

What Mr. Zander did in his three-hammer-blow Finale was restore the original orchestration from version A only in the region around the third hammer blow, retaining the revised orchestration from Version C throughout the rest of the symphony, thereby creating a hybrid version Mahler never imagined.

Someone, sometime should record the real three-hammer-blow Sixth to be found in Version A: the original orchestration of the entire symphony including all three hammer blows.

I have no particular interest in hearing a five-hammer-blow version. The two extra blows (at measures 9 and 530) existed only as blue pencil marks in an early draft of the score. They were eliminated well before the first publication of the work and were never heard by anyone. Knowing where they were in the score is enough for me. Or, as Barry suggests, I can bang my fist on the table at those two spots while the recording plays and use my imagination. It would be the wrong orchestration in any case.

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 24, 2012, 10:50:09 AM
There should be a mail order Heath Kit, build-your-own hammer and wooden box kit. Recycled lumber yards might be a good source also.
Maybe this might be a first where either Lowe's or Home Depot participate in a project for the arts!  ;D

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: hrandall on June 25, 2012, 02:14:03 AM
Well then, the obvious solution would be an MMO (Music Music One) issue of the finale in which you, the participant, provide your own hammer-strokes!!!!   8)

Also, there should be a mail order Heath Kit, build-your-own hammer and wooden box kit. Recycled lumber yards might be a good source also.

I'm sensing an official Gustav Mahler Board competition coming up! Video with sound required for entry! Blueprints and/or materials list required for all entries....

Cheers!
Herb
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Sturmisch Bewegt on June 25, 2012, 08:01:13 AM
Well then, the obvious solution would be an MMO (Music Music One) issue of the finale in which you, the participant, provide your own hammer-strokes!!!!   8)

Also, there should be a mail order Heath Kit, build-your-own hammer and wooden box kit. Recycled lumber yards might be a good source also.

I'm sensing an official Gustav Mahler Board competition coming up! Video with sound required for entry! Blueprints and/or materials list required for all entries....

Cheers!
Herb

Beware the cheaters!

http://www.fstjpercussion.com/en/products/19-wind-machine-mahler-hammer.html (http://www.fstjpercussion.com/en/products/19-wind-machine-mahler-hammer.html)
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 25, 2012, 12:50:40 PM
Beware the cheaters!

http://www.fstjpercussion.com/en/products/19-wind-machine-mahler-hammer.html (http://www.fstjpercussion.com/en/products/19-wind-machine-mahler-hammer.html)
Well Barry, from looking at this link of the M6 hammer box, I guessed accurately - it's on raised blocks!  But the box looks like a solid piece of wood from a big tree.

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Roffe on June 25, 2012, 01:00:44 PM
I don't think it's solid; I think I detected some sort of "lid". Furthermore, if it nwas solid, it would give just a "thud" when hit. No, it's got to be hollow for the best resonance.

Roffe
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Constantin on June 28, 2012, 01:12:08 PM
The instrument to produce the proper hammerschlag sound is crucial to an M6 performance, as it must convey the impression of an annihilating blow, instantly crushing out all hope of life (like a giant tree, felled in a single crash).

If this is a solid block of wood, it seems unlikely it could produce adequate resonating sound to be properly devastating in its effect, but however the sound is achieved, it is this crushing thud that is so vital (ironic to use this word?) in M6.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 28, 2012, 02:38:39 PM
Big chopping blocks are sometimes used, and rather effectively at that. But it's becoming more common to have a hallow wooden box with a sound-hole.

Before everybody gets carried away as to what a hammerstroke should or shouldn't sound like, you have to keep in mind that it's doubled by the bass drum both times. Part of what you're hearing is the bass drum. As you know from the M10 business, a solid 'whap' on a bass drum can sound quite different from drum to drum, hall to hall.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Sturmisch Bewegt on June 28, 2012, 08:40:45 PM


Before everybody gets carried away as to what a hammerstroke should or shouldn't sound like, you have to keep in mind that it's doubled by the bass drum both times. Part of what you're hearing is the bass drum. As you know from the M10 business, a solid 'whap' on a bass drum can sound quite different from drum to drum, hall to hall.

 Awesome hammerstroke just with timpani and bass drum (at 2:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqAOKXXcsw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqAOKXXcsw)

 
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 28, 2012, 09:03:35 PM
.   .    .   then there's Maxwell's Silver Hammer

http://maxwellsc.blogspot.com/2008/12/maxwells-silver-hammer.html

Looks like a good way to remove slugs from your garden (2nd photo down).
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 28, 2012, 10:30:12 PM
.   .    .   then there's Maxwell's Silver Hammer

http://maxwellsc.blogspot.com/2008/12/maxwells-silver-hammer.html
Looks more like Donner's silver hammer from the final scene of Wagner's Das Rheingold.  ;D

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Sturmisch Bewegt on June 29, 2012, 06:09:03 AM
. . . then there is the guillotine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhb8UxMlW2Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhb8UxMlW2Y)
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Roffe on June 29, 2012, 08:39:08 AM
. . . then there is the guillotine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhb8UxMlW2Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhb8UxMlW2Y)
It would, most likely, take too much time to reload for the second (and 3rd) hammer blow. This is of course remedied by using 2-3 guillotines. Hope the audience don't get too excited and lose their heads.

Roffe
 
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Constantin on June 29, 2012, 01:09:19 PM
Uh, oh, Roffe,

I see the budding of a new industry--reviving the guillotines.
You're right that we mustn't lose our heads over this!

Actually, the Guillotine design for a hammerschlag-sounding instrument has merit, if exactly the right soundboard and drop-weight could be determined.  But somehow, for me at least, it loses the theatrical aspect of raising the mighty hammer, and the audience's anticipation, as they watch it fall.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 29, 2012, 02:38:46 PM
Actually, the Guillotine design for a hammerschlag-sounding instrument has merit, if exactly the right soundboard and drop-weight could be determined.  But somehow, for me at least, it loses the theatrical aspect of raising the mighty hammer, and the audience's anticipation, as they watch it fall.
The danger in having a guillotine design for the Hammerschlag is that concert goers new to, or ignorant about Mahler might come away thinking he was a French as opposed to a composer from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. ::)

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 29, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
.     .     .    not if you paint a big double eagle at the top of it.   ;)

"K u K" would work as well (Kaiserlich und Koeniglich)
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: Prospero on June 29, 2012, 04:38:05 PM
When I heard and saw Tennstedt conduct the Mahler 6 in April 1983 with the LPO, there was an ominous black pyramid behind the cellos and double basses on the right. It was a wooden construction about five feet high at the peak. In the last movement the two hammer strokes were performed by raising a the hinged heavy front triangle that was let fall to sound the strokes along with accompanying drum beats. I remember the foreboding this devilish instrument imposed on the whole performance, just sitting and brooding, while waiting to deliver the fatal blows.

Tom
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 29, 2012, 05:21:11 PM
When I heard and saw Tennstedt conduct the Mahler 6 in April 1983 with the LPO, there was an ominous black pyramid behind the cellos and double basses on the right. It was a wooden construction about five feet high at the peak. In the last movement the two hammer strokes were performed by raising a the hinged heavy front triangle that was let fall to sound the strokes along with accompanying drum beats. I remember the foreboding this devilish instrument imposed on the whole performance, just sitting and brooding, while waiting to deliver the fatal blows.

Tom

With that pyramid Hammerschlag device Tennstedt employed, each Hammerschlag had to have made the Pharoahs in the ancient Egyptian pyramids turn over in their graves.   ;D  But having been in Egypt only last year, they had to have settled down by then.   ;D
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on June 30, 2012, 03:32:42 AM
hmmmm, a hybrid Guillotine/Pyramid contraption might be frightening enough.  :o
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: waderice on June 30, 2012, 06:45:29 AM
What could be even more frightening is the guy hired to "play" it! :o

Wade
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on August 04, 2012, 05:34:55 AM
My source at the Aspen Music Festival has finally reported in. The decision regarding the number of hammer blows to be used in Pittsburgh's Exton CD of M6 is not yet final, but "it will most likely be two, possibly three."

Five—fortunately—is no longer a consideration.

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on August 04, 2012, 05:41:10 AM
I'd rather have it now with no hammer strokes. Then, once they make up their minds, they could recall it and issue new copies with the hammer. Works for me.
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: James Meckley on August 04, 2012, 06:26:58 AM
But Exton hasn't yet recorded Pittsburgh's M6. It'll be recorded (along with their M2) in late October and early November in Vienna's Musikverein while the orchestra is on its 2012 European tour. The recent concerts in Pittsburgh were just "rehearsals."

James
Title: Re: Honeck / Pittburgh's Hammerschlag
Post by: barry guerrero on August 04, 2012, 07:56:09 AM
I Know, I wasn't being serious. I doubt, however, that the recent performances of M6 were just 'rehearsals'. In addition, I'm not convinced that waiting to use the Musikverein is such a great idea. The Musikverein may sound great in a live performance context, but it just doesn't seem to record all that well.

In addition, why would anyone want to record M2 in the Musikverein? It has too little space for large choruses and its baroque organ is way too under-powered and 'wheezy' sounding for Mahler. That's just my opinion - hopefully I'm proven wrong (and yes, I've been in the Musikverein numerous times).