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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: justininsf on February 20, 2013, 10:35:49 AM

Title: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on February 20, 2013, 10:35:49 AM
Anyone going to see this concert? 
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on February 22, 2013, 01:44:24 AM
I'm in S.F. on Thursdays & Fridays, but I've retired M9 in terms of live performances. About 10 years ago or so, John Kim and I saw Seiji Ozawa/Saito Kinen Orch. do M9 at Davies Hall, and the mostly Asian audience was dead silent - you could hear a pin drop during those super soft parts at the end of the  two outer movements! For me, that made all the difference in the world. I'm not a big fan of MTT's Mahler, but I'm sure this M9 will be very good - it'll have to be if they want to keep up with Dudamel/L.A. (the new cd is knock-out!).

I used to go see Ozawa with the SFSO when I was a kid. I always felt his performances were really good. For Mahler in S.F., I liked Edo DeWaart the best. Anyway, enjoy the show. I'm also very cash strapped these days.

Barry Guerrero
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on February 22, 2013, 06:05:15 AM
I just got the Dudamel in the mail today based on your recco, will be listening to that soon. 

I actually saw MTT do Mahler 9 a few years ago, I enjoyed it very much.  I've heard many people do not like his Mahler, or his conducting in general.

I've only seen this piece live twice before, I can't pass it up, it is the 9th after all!
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on February 22, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
I'm sure it'll be fine. MTT's personal way with Mahler probably 'gels' better now than when they made the recordings. Also, everybody always puts their best foot forward when they do the 9th. It's one of the few Mahler symphonies that all of the musicians in the band 'get'. I'm really more concerned about audience noise than the 'interpretation'.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on February 22, 2013, 07:58:29 PM
I'm sure it'll be fine. MTT's personal way with Mahler probably 'gels' better now than when they made the recordings. Also, everybody always puts their best foot forward when they do the 9th. It's one of the few Mahler symphonies that all of the musicians in the band 'get'. I'm really more concerned about audience noise than the 'interpretation'.

Interesting topic:  where are the best behaved audiences?  I hear Japan is always nice, what about in the States?
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: akiralx on February 24, 2013, 07:36:12 AM

Interesting topic:  where are the best behaved audiences?  I hear Japan is always nice, what about in the States?

Australians are OK, though there were a few hacking coughs during a recital by the pianist Alexander Gavrylyuk last week which I attended in Melbourne- and it is the middle of summer here.  Also some imbecile's mobile rang noisily during the finale of the Schumann Fantaisie op. 17... 

Excellent pianist if you get the chance to hear him.  The Mussorgsky Pictures gained a standing ovation.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on February 24, 2013, 07:49:54 AM
Mobile phone is unforgivable, there was a thread here about an iphone alarm going off during the last mvt of Mahler 9 in NY I believe.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on March 14, 2013, 05:39:01 PM
The musicians went on strike, looks like this series of performances may be cancelled, the Thursday performance is already cancelled.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/san-francisco-symphony-protest_n_2863164.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/san-francisco-symphony-protest_n_2863164.html)
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 15, 2013, 12:22:26 AM
Yeah, right, 141,000 dollars - base pay, mind you  (many get paid much higher) -  isn't enough to live comfortably in a city where many thousands of people live under the poverty line or just above it, including myself. Give me a break! Ever heard the S.F. Conservatory Orchestra?  .    .   .  They're excellent, and I'll  bet that those kids would jump at the opportunity for a third of that pay, maybe less.

In a nutshell, they're out of their minds.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on March 15, 2013, 02:42:02 AM
Yeah, right, 141,000 dollars - base pay, mind you  (many get paid much higher) -  isn't enough to live comfortably in a city where many thousands of people live under the poverty line or just above it, including myself. Give me a break! Ever heard the S.F. Conservatory Orchestra?  .    .   .  They're excellent, and I'll  bet that those kids would jump at the opportunity for a third of that pay, maybe less.

In a nutshell, they're out of their minds.

Let's not forget 10 weeks paid vacation, and of course ALL of the perks of being a symphony member:  high teaching fees, being invited to play festivals, travel to perform in other cities/countries plus per diem which I hear is very high, etc.

They're just behind Chicago and L.A., so ranked 3rd highest in the country.

But Barry, you have to cut them some slack, they are extremely oppressed and taken advantage of, it's a good thing somebody is fighting for their rights that are obviously being trampled on.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: AaronMcGarvey on March 15, 2013, 04:24:54 AM
This is a perfect example of why orchestras are folding. There is a reason people think that classical musicians are stuffy snobs and no grasp on reality, which is unfortunate. A 17% increase over the last couple of years and they want 5% annually? I don't remember the last time my dad got a raise in his job and, as a future music teacher, I know they are just now considering giving teachers a raise in Florida after a wage increase freeze a number of years ago. I feel like some of these musicians have forgotten why they became musicians in the first place.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 15, 2013, 05:53:03 AM
Maybe orchestras should be allowed to make trades. For example, we could trade a principal trumpet for another at a lesser salary, plus two draft picks from any conservatory of our choice. You know, like pro sports.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: waderice on March 15, 2013, 07:46:32 PM
SF had better watch themselves financially, or they'll end up like Philly did.  Philly came out of Chapter 11 last year and is on the upswing.  Though their music director doesn't yet have the credentials that Michael Tilson Thomas does, he is on the rise, and is very enthusiastic about the orchestra.  So far, I've heard some great concerts by them this season, among them a great Carmina Burana, unlike any other I've ever heard (conducted by Fruhbeck de Burgos).

Wade
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 16, 2013, 01:11:31 AM
Yep, the local S.F. news is reporting that both the S.F. Opera and SFSO ran deficits exceeding what they had budgeted for.

The even sadder thing is that the SFSO could have used these Mahler 9 concerts as memorials for principal oboist William Bennett, who just recently passed away in an S.F. hospital.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: Roland Flessner on March 16, 2013, 02:28:58 AM
The Minnesota Orchestra has been locked out for months, and it doesn't appear they'll have a season at all this year. I read that the management wanted to reduce average salary from $140K to $89K. Yes, 140 sounds like a lot to me, but I can understand why the musicians would have trouble with a big cut like that.

Here in Chicago, the CSO went on strike for one concert last fall, but salary wasn't a sticking point; it was mainly employee contributions to health care.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 16, 2013, 02:38:30 AM
.   .   .   you need a new hall.  Well, at least for recordings, anyway. After Orchestra Hall was screwed up in the mid '60s, I've preferred recordings from the Medinah Temple. Regarding the strike:

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/03/13/san-francisco-symphony-on-strike-concert-cancelled/

I love it - poor musicians 'slumming it' in the streets as though they were canary workers.

Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: Roland Flessner on March 16, 2013, 03:42:48 AM
Yes, Orchestra Hall is awful. It's a shame that such a fine orchestra has to play there.

In the most recent remodel, an ugly acoustic reflector was suspended over the orchestra. On the one hand, the sound is brighter and clearer in the balconies, but it acts as a huge microphone and even if the orchestra is playing pianissimo, it ends up being mezzo forte.

If the main floor has any good seats, they're out of my price range; same for the lower balcony. I sit toward the front of the upper balcony, and it's tolerable. I used to sit in the gallery, which is the top balcony, but the sound is horrible there now--no highs at all.

Some conductors manage to scale the sound of the orchestra to the hall. Haitink, Sir Mark Elder, Semyon Bychkov and Jaap von Zweden are quite listenable.

Sadly, Medinah Temple was redone and only the facade remains. It's a moot point since studio recording is dead. The best hall in the area is the Auditorium Theater, but few classical concerts are played there.

Minneapolis has a good hall, way better than Chicago. That's why I've gone there six times in about as many years. The best halls I've heard are the Auditorium, the Foellinger Great Hall at the Krannert Center in Champaign/Urbana, and Dallas. Solti made some CSO recordings at Krannert, including M7.

As far as I know, after the mid-'60s remodel, RCA never recorded in Orchestra Hall again; the late Martinon and the Levine recordings were all done at Medinah. DG and Erato made some decent sounding recordings at Orchestra Hall, but now I don't think it's possible.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 16, 2013, 03:53:09 AM
Yes, the Solti M7 has really really good sound. The first four movements are quite good. But then the timpanist can't play the opening flourish to the finale, and the finale just becomes a 'train wreck' from there on. On the whole, I think both the Levine and Abbado M7 recordings are better, in spite of any issues regarding sound quality. Funny how the CSO got so far out ahead in regards to the 7th symphony, except for N.Y. and Amsterdam. I wish Reiner had done it in Chicago (he did do it in Cincinnati).
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on March 16, 2013, 04:06:11 AM
This sucks, I have a ticket for Saturday night and it looks like it will be cancelled, one of the only concerts I had planned to go to this year.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 16, 2013, 04:25:06 AM
I'm sincerely sorry. Scheisse happens.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on March 16, 2013, 05:53:13 AM
It is the 9th!  Happens to be my favorite, I had seen it around 10 years ago when they played it, I think it was the series of concerts on which the recordings are based off of.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 16, 2013, 07:48:41 AM
Truly, I'm sincerely sorry, and I'm sure everybody else wishes that this wasn't the case also. I think it's sad that they're willing hold their Carnegie Hall concert hostage as a bargaining chip, especially so soon after William Bennett has passed away. Now that's class!
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: merlin on March 16, 2013, 06:06:32 PM
When an at-best fair middle reliever in baseball is making around $4M annually, and journeymen NBA players even more, I think it only fitting that musicians in top-level orchestras make at least $140K.  Wonder what their management and prbots get?
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: justininsf on March 17, 2013, 02:57:31 AM
When an at-best fair middle reliever in baseball is making around $4M annually, and journeymen NBA players even more, I think it only fitting that musicians in top-level orchestras make at least $140K.  Wonder what their management and prbots get?

In a fair world where art reigns supreme, yes, but the economics of the real world just don't dictate that.  Sports franchises are really huge businesses that on their own can bring in huge amounts of money and profits, whereas symphony orchestras rely on grants, donations, etc.  Ticket sales just don't cut it, they are basically subsidized organizations.

140K is a lot, 10 weeks vacation, plus that's a pretty damn good life.  Performances maybe 4 times a week, rehearsals aren't long and arduous.  They already are one of the top paid orchestras, if economics dictated a higher salary they would get it, but it doesn't.  Ask any professional orchestra player in the country (not in LA, Chicago or San Francisco) and I'm sure they have little sympathy for the San Francisco Symphony players.  Plus they get to live in San Francisco, one of the most desirable cities in the country.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 18, 2013, 11:01:29 PM
Exactly. This is true because ticket sales cover only a small portion of overall expenses, and sponsorships are truly hard to come by. If it weren't for the large endowment that the SFSO received not too many years ago, they'd be in even much hotter water already.
Title: Re: March 14-17, San Francisco Symphony & MTT - Mahler 9
Post by: barry guerrero on March 29, 2013, 04:31:05 PM
Well, the SFSO is still out of strike. I think rehearsals for the next set of concerts are to begin next week (remember, they were supposed to be out on tour now).