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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Leo K on May 20, 2007, 10:59:30 PM
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(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/25/3/1/184.jpg)
Well, for what it's worth, here are my thoughts regarding the Kobayashi M9 recently released on the Exton label. I started this review at 2:30 in the morning after my 6th full listen to it. I’ve listened to this thing all weekend…in the morning before work, and during work, and especially at night when the traffic outside my apartment is dieing down.
First, allow me to mention the glorious Japan Philharmonic Orchestra. The JPO's playing is bold, they may not be the RCO or LPO, but they truly give everything they've got for Kobayashi...they have no fear or hesitation at all. You will especially notice this during the phenomenal execution of the Adagio. It's amazing to hear how the strings blend with atmospheric feeling, and dig roughly as if breaking the earth. The climax of the Adagio is grand...larger than life…and seems about to explode...and the strings out do themselves again during the final moments, almost transparent. Kobayashi only makes noises three or four times that I can hear (his foot stamps on the podium here and there). The most I can hear him grunt is at the beginning of the Adagio, where he grunts to the rhythm a little, but it's not bad at all as he stops before the full strings enter.
The interpretation of the work’s structure is very well thought out, and the full execution of the score is rather subtle or complex with a sense of direction and purpose. I think many will have different impressions because Kobayashi doesn’t enforce an obvious concept or vision, and seems to be transparent overall in relation to the score. I personally feel this Symphony, as conducted by Kobayashi, appears to start with a detached state of simple almost childlike sorrow, but ends with emotional relatedness in the Adagio. This detachment doesn’t keep the listener at arms length, as this detachment is a defensive gesture and repression is hard to maintain, and it is sensitively projected mostly by the strings, trumpets and horns, with engaging nuance and excellent phrasing. This “defensive detachment” is gradually broken down through the pastoral warmth of the 2nd movement and the whirl and dreaminess of the Rondo. As the Adagio progresses this detachment or fear is replaced by emotional vulnerability. In Kobayashi’s performance the strings are almost the main character, or viewpoint of the work, and the rest of the orchestra are the memories, actions and emotions and etc. The strings are very sensitive to the musical argument, as the more turbulent sections of the first movement testify. In these spots the strings cannot repress emotion. However, the sound is not only balanced towards the strings, but favors the whole orchestra and the score and all its details are well heard.
At the beginning of the Andante Comodo the lyrical melody is played rather straightforward, yet the strings exhibit a subtle sorrowful “sigh” that is beautiful but doesn’t give too much away. I especially like how nothing is rushed during the climaxes in the first movement...this results in a kind of terrifying clarity...the sound is quite good and you can hear the different lines though the intensifying loudness. The tempo is like a heavy ship that keeps its course though the strongest storm, but the flow does not drag. The consistent tempo reminded me of Horenstein, but Kobayashi is flexible when he needs to be. Kobayashi also doesn’t hold back during the climaxes, yet he doesn’t lose control either…it is a nice subtle balance that hints at Mahler’s paradoxical nature. Overall the first movement performance is successful in every way. The orchestra meaningfully navigating though the paradoxes Mahler throws at them: complexity vs. simplicity, directness vs. indirectness, power vs. vulnerability and structure vs. freedom. The closing of the Andante Comodo is very tender and leads into the pastoral 2nd movement with grace.
The Scherzo is very Haydnesque, with much rustic humor and open simplicity with almost no sarcasm. The horns really deliver those humorous trills throughout; among the most humorous I’ve heard in this Symphony. The soft return of the 1st movement’s lyric melody reveals restfulness, a feeling of “coming to terms” with conditions and is very evocative. There is a kind of Haydnesque humor in the Rondo too …the same Haydn who preferred to put a joke in the middle of a Symphony (and who could be scheming and blunt) is here in Mahler’s Rondo. Whatever was fearful and hurt in the first movement now regains a powerful confidence for action and life. The stately transition into the “music from another place” section is a highlight, as is the dreamy interlude, intimate and full of power.
I already mentioned the great performance of the Adagio. A radiant energy builds and builds as heard in the ambient strings, using vibrato and no vibrato depending on the section. The horns are not as beautiful or direct as those in the major orchestras, but they play with earnest dedication and a keen sense of tone and phrasing. A powerful energy, slowly collecting itself throughout the whole performance, finally fully incarnates during the incredible climax. Everything opens and outshines all that came before. The execution of this passage is really an achievement in Mahler performance. The final minutes are full of calm and peaceful surrender, not too drawn out, just flowing quietly with the last ounce of purpose left. A word I once encountered (while reading various spiritual books) seems to convey what I sense about the whole performance…this word is “positive-disillusionment”. I sense an undercurrent of positive outlook behind the crisis moments and sorrowful detachment, but this attitude is balanced with the understanding of the dilemma of life (which is death) and the inherent suffering of living it.
After the final note drifts off, there is a pause that lasts about a minute before the applause sets in.
I highly recommend this recording. It deserves the high rating on the HMV site (97/100).
Now I can’t wait to hear John’s thoughts! He is a better judge on sound and he knows the details of the score to the 9th more than me!
--Leo
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Thanks for the review. Does the timing for the finale that you posted separately include all of this time for the applause?
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Thanks for the review. Does the timing for the finale that you posted separately include all of this time for the applause?
Yes, and there is a about a 45 second silence before the applause starts, almost a minute! The Adagio actually is around 26 1/2 minutes or so.
--Leo
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Todd,
Now that you have several different M9th from Japan,
Kobayashi/JPO/Exton
Inoue/NJPO/Exton
Neumann/CPO/Exton
perhaps you could give a A-B-C comparison of the recordings and put them in a perspective?
As for me, I LOVE the Neumann & Inoue and think they are both great M9ths. I will give out my thoughts when I get to hear the Kobayashi soon.
Regards,
John,
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The score on the Kobayashi M9th has gone up to 97/100 from 95/100, the highest Japanese musical fans have given to any Mahler recording (the next highest is Tennstedt/LPO/EMI Mahler box set, 96/100).
John,
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Leo,
Thanks for the thorough review. It doesn't surprise that Kobayashi is really good with the 9th. I have an M1 and M5 with him, both with the Czech Phil. Both of those are very good. But his Czech Phil. M3 is absolutely stunning. He goes insane - you can hear moaning and grunting along with the music in many intense spots. Given the right venue and a decent set of soloists, I have no doubts that Kobayashi could do a terrific M8 someday.
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Todd,
Now that you have several different M9th from Japan,
Kobayashi/JPO/Exton
Inoue/NJPO/Exton
Neumann/CPO/Exton
perhaps you could give a A-B-C comparison of the recordings and put them in a perspective?
As for me, I LOVE the Neumann & Inoue and think they are both great M9ths. I will give out my thoughts when I get to hear the Kobayashi soon.
Regards,
John,
John, thats a good idea...I can't wait to hear the other 9's I just bought. That will be a good project to start this week. I can't wait to read your comparison. I want to add that these releases from Japan have the best graphic design I've ever come across...these CD's are presented in cases that look really sharp, and the glossy paper is a plus. The actual design for the covers are wonderful.
--Leo
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Leo,
Thanks for the thorough review. It doesn't surprise that Kobayashi is really good with the 9th. I have an M1 and M5 with him, both with the Czech Phil. Both of those are very good. But his Czech Phil. M3 is absolutely stunning. He goes insane - you can hear moaning and grunting along with the music in many intense spots. Given the right venue and a decent set of soloists, I have no doubts that Kobayashi could do a terrific M8 someday.
Thanks Barry. I've read your review for Kobayashi's M3 and it sounds like a great recording...I will have to check that out for sure. The Kobayashi M9 is my first exposure to his conducting. Yesterday I was dreaming of what a Kobayashi M6 would be like!!
--Leo
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The score on the Kobayashi M9th has gone up to 97/100 from 95/100, the highest Japanese musical fans have given to any Mahler recording (the next highest is Tennstedt/LPO/EMI Mahler box set, 96/100).
John,
Is that supposed to reinforce our confidence in their reviewing abilities? ;)
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Scott,
Yeah, I can rely on their ratings most of time. But if there are not that many reviewers for a particular CD then I don't trust the rating much. For example, they (or just one Japanese person) gave a very low score for Inoue/NJPO/Exton M6th but IMO this another great recording of M6th symphony.
John,
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Kobayashi . . . goes insane - you can hear moaning and grunting along with the music in many intense spots. Given the right venue and a decent set of soloists, I have no doubts that Kobayashi could do a terrific M8 someday.
Hmmm. But let Abbado make a facial expression, and FLUSH! down the toilet he goes. ;D
. & '
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OK Jot; you seem to be on my case here, so let me explain mayself. Although it is distracting, I'd rather hear Kobayashi's grunting - when the performance is THAT good - than to have to look at Abbado on a video. But more annoying to me than Abbado himself: I really do not enjoy watching an entire orchestra sweeping their torsos all around. For me, the BPO people are simply too in love with the huge sound that their strings make. Also, I never said that ANY of the Abbado performances are bad - they're not. What I did say, was that I greatly prefer the DVD of Boulez doing M2 to the Abbado one; and, in order to pay for the Boulez DVD (because I couldn't afford it outright), I was willing to part with the Abbado one for trade credit. I'm glad I made that trade, but I could have very easily lived with the Abbado M2 too. Fortunately, I can just listen to the CD of it, and not have to look an orchestra that's like watching a mixmaster on acid.
I hope this clarifies things, but that's as far as I'm going to explain it.
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Nah, Barry, I'm just having some fun tweaking your nose. ;D
You have explained your reaction to Abbado's M2 DVD before and there is no need to go further. As has been observed here before, tastes vary. Still--sorry, I can't resist this--if Haitink is poker-faced, what is Boulez? For me he has all the expression of a metronome. Okay, okay, let's not go there.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to think my way through the aural-visual complex of musical percption. If I can figure it out, I'll post something.
. & '
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I can't resist this--if Haitink is poker-faced, what is Boulez? For me he has all the expression of a metronome.
I've always taken Barry's "poker face" comments as relating to Haitink's lack of flexible tempos, not as a commentary on his podium conduct. In fact, I actually find that Haitink is fairly animated on the podium on all of the (dozen or so) DVD performances that I've seen. Even Boulez has a little bit of podium animation compared to Maazel (well, at least in the one DVD that I own of each of them).
Sorry to take this thread further off-topic.
(PS - Don't take this as a criticism of your prior humorous remarks. You very obviously meant them in jest! :) )
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OK Jot, I apologize for getting defensive when it wasn't necessary. But with Boulez, I can at least follow his beat. Haitink is good that way also, I must admit. Abbado and Rattle - I have no idea where the beat is at (and I play!).
Barry
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OK Jot, I apologize for getting defensive when it wasn't necessary. But with Boulez, I can at least follow his beat. Haitink is good that way also, I must admit. Abbado and Rattle - I have no idea where the beat is at (and I play!).
Barry
I must agree! The final note of the M2 video with Abbado: it still boggles my mind on how the players knew when to attack it. I'm a conductor and a horn player, and I still couldn't tell you!
Ben
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No problem, Barry. Actually, I agree with you as regards the beat.
Could it be that some conductors simply provide a kind of visual echo-chamber to the orchestra? That is, they "anticispond" to the music and "perform" accordingly. (No baton is necessary except as badge of authority.)
Have you seen films of old Furtwaengler conducting? He just sort of stands there, quivering--and not necessarily in time.
. & '
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Yeah, I think that your theory makes a lot of sense. Sorry for getting uppity.
Barry
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I already told John about this, but I thought I'd let the board know too.
The Kobayashi M9 also sounds good on SACD. I listened to it last week in SACD for the first time, and immediately noticed a difference. In particular, I think the SACD layer shows the limitations of the string players more than we hear on the CD layer, which actually brings an added urgency to the performance...the difficult score brings out the best they have. This could be why Kobayashi keeps a solid tempo throughout the 1st movement--Horenstein style--because perhaps it helped the orchestra "sing" better. I wish I had the score in front of me, but there are some moments when the french horn(s) eloquently turn a phrase so full of feeling that I think of Mile Davis.
This M9 continues to get better on each listen. It is very much like a Horenstein M9 conception...and like Horenstein it takes time to appreciate the finer points. Yes, as you know, this is not the LPO or VPO, but what this performance lacks in virtuosity it gains with wonderful instrumental detail and a grand, solid architecture on the level of Horenstein. Kobayashi is very much his own man though...where Horenstein is "negative" in outlook, Kobayashi is "postive" and life affirming. The strings suddenly shine in the final adagio...they really sound like they're weeping. It is really something to behold. This performance reminds me of Horenstein's M9 with the Orchestre National de France, except that the playing is much better.
--Leo
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None of this surprises, as I think that Kobayashi is a really under-rated Mahler conductor. You should hear the M3 that he made with the Czech Phil. sometime. It'll make you forgot slow performances for certain. We'll, maybe not forget, but postpone.
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None of this surprises, as I think that Kobayashi is a really under-rated Mahler conductor. You should hear the M3 that he made with the Czech Phil. sometime. It'll make you forgot slow performances for certain. We'll, maybe not forget, but postpone.
This happened with the recent Fischer and Zimman M2 recordings...a recording that convinced me of the greatness of his kind of interpetation for the M2 (faster, more objective and etc). I will always love the slower performances, but on the other hand, it's nice to have a revelation and appreciation regarding another point of view.
I will get the Kobayashi M2 and M3 very soon (probably when I order the Zinman M3).
--Leo