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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: je-b on August 26, 2007, 08:16:23 AM
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I attended last night's performance of M9 as performed by Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic which was this season's opening night. As the three regular performances of this symphony in October will be recorded and thereafter released by EMI, I'd like to give you some hints what to expect.
Well, Rattle's is one of those M9s that will leave you shattered, exhausted, and probably deeply moved. Even though there were some odd tempo choices in the inner movements that one might not agree with (he was for example very fast with that short "glimpse of heaven" passage in the Rondo), his overall approach seemed extremely well thought-out and consistent till the very last bar. This is an M9 as dark and heavy as it gets, often times very slow and probably comparable in style to Chailly / RCO, Kobayashi / JPO (but with way better playing by the BPO), Abbado / BPO (Mahlerfeest '95), Bernstein / BPO, Sinopoli / Dresden, or MTT / SFS. It's one of those "old world" interventionist M9s that milks the music for every drop of emotion, that doesn't shy away from the most extreme outcries (some of the climaxes were so forceful it almost hurt), and that somehow seems to see the end of a whole world, a whole universe (rather than "just" that of one individual life, or of a certain symphonic tradition) in this work.
If you like your M9 to be more in the "modern" and aggressive way of say Barenboim / Staatskapelle or Ancerl / CPO, then you might find Rattle's way with this work overtly emotional and drawn out. But if you're in for a Mahler Ninth as grim, heavy, brooding, tortured and violent as it gets, I'd say you may really look forward to this one if EMI gets it right.
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Many thanks for your detailed review.
Temporally, this one sounds rather different than Rattle's earlier version with VPO. But the Vienna performance was also loaded with extreme emotions and dynamic ranges that defy even the limit of modern digital recording. But I liked most of tempos that he chose in that performance. What were the timings of the four movements like?
John,
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What were the timings of the four movements like?
John,
that's a bit hard to tell as I didn't check my watch during / after the movements. What I can say for sure is that the performance was on the slow to very slow side. Particularly the outer movements seemed very expansive - I'd say about 28-30 minutes for the first and 26-28 for the last. The inner movements seemed just about average in terms of tempi, while the Rondo was - despite the very fluent "glimpse of heaven" section - probably a good deal slower than on the recent Barenboim recording. All in all I'd say this was probably a performance of 85 - 90 minutes. But don't take my word on that. I can let know more precisely about timings in October, when I'll certainly be attending one of the three regular performances of the work then.
On a side note, the normally extremely anti-Rattle "Berliner Zeitung" today writes that the M9 was "one of the most wonderful performances Simon Rattle has ever conducted at the helm of the Berlin Philharmonic". I tend to agree. :)
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je-b,
Rattle's VPO recordings has something like,
I. 27.5
II. 15.5
III. 13
IV. 24.5
So, it seems the Finale got expanded a few min. in the BPO concert. Is there any chance to hear this concert on web?
John,
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[...] Is there any chance to hear this concert on web?
It's been uploaded into OperaShare. The timings are:
1. 28:13
2. 15:31
3. 12:35
4. 27:32
Total 83:51
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ahhhhh, that's more to my liking.
Barry
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Wow, I was totally wrong about the Rondo then. :o It somehow felt slower in performance.
Well, at least I got the outer movements somewhat right. ;)
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[...] Is there any chance to hear this concert on web?
It's been uploaded into OperaShare. The timings are:
1. 28:13
2. 15:31
3. 12:35
4. 27:32
Total 83:51
Hm, I'd love to hear that again and see if my very favorable judgement remains the same after listening to a recording of it.
So, as OperaShare is currently a bit difficult to join, would any OperaShare member here be willing to send me a membership invitation? If you are, please PM me - that would be great. Many thanks in advance!
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Symphony No.9
Berliner Philharmoniker
Simon Rattle
Philharmonie Berlin, 25-VIII-2007
http://rapidshare.com/files/51286911/Mahler_9.Rattle_07.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/51288584/Mahler_9.Rattle_07.part2.rar
:)
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You're the best, Leo! :D
Many thanks.
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I've just finished listening to the first movt. Sadly, I was not that impressed. Lot of it sounds much like Abbado/BPO/DG which was recorded not too long ago, in 1999. Also, the level of the intensity is not up to Rattle's VPO recording, with many passages rounded off and softened off. In one word, I don't find much new or unique about this recording. It sounds like a combination of other BPO recordings that are already available, Abbado, Karajan, to name a few. I will next listen to II-IV.
John,
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To a certain point, I have to agree with John here. The recording somehow can't compete with the concert experience I had. This has certainly also to do with the seats I had in the hall (very close to the orchestra - where the sound was really extremely direct). But I also feel they leveled down the percussion and strings somewhat that were both overpowering a bit during the performance. Maybe the October performances will be better / differently captured.
That said, I'm still pretty much in love with the second and fourth movement - even on the recording.
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I listened to this Rattle M9 broadcast tonight (from link posted above).
I really loved the performance, epic and slow in the first movement, but well constucted and strongly played. The middle movements have plenty of flow and action, with colorful instrumental detail, in contrast the outer movements are definitely heavier and "meditative" overall...but the underlying archictecture is felt...each part of the "building", each "ornamentation" captured my attention. I have not heard Rattle's VPO, so I can't compare with his EMI release.
Judging by this concert, I really feel his upcoming commercial release has great potential. Time will tell.
John, I know you wern't impressed by the first mov...but did you hear the rest of this performance? It is really good.
--Leo
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Leo,
I can't comment on the recording objectively based on the broadcat alone. I will defer my judgement until I hear the official recording. For one thing, what I heard was taken from a concert before the EMI recording was made, so there is possibility Rattle's view or the playing or the sound might have changed since then.
John,
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Yes, I understand as there is some problems with the sound of this broadcast (balances are off, and the sounds drops out etc), so it is hard to judge. And it will be interesting to finally hear the commercial release to hear Rattle's official reading.
--Leo
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Today the new Rattle M9 has been pre-released by iTunes. It's an iTunes plus release, so the sound quality is good (256 AAC).
Timings are:
I. 28:57
II. 15:57
III. 12:38
IV. 26:02
I only checked the Rondo Burlesque up to now. The sound is more at the front, less stage atmosphere than e.g. Barenboim or Chailly. But that's only a first impression.
Michael
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So, it is different from the one we all heard on the boradcast which has,
1. 28:13
2. 15:31
3. 12:35
4. 27:32
John,
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So, it is different from the one we all heard on the broadcast which has,
1. 28:13
2. 15:31
3. 12:35
4. 27:32
John,
But effectively, the 3rd and 4th movement are 12:28 and 25:50 on the broadcast and within one second this is identical on the official release. The first two movements are definitely different. Looks like a mix of the broadcast performance and other ones. I had no time to compare in detail.
Michael
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I can't find it in the iTunes store...is it perhaps only in Europe it is released?
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Leo,
Can you contact me when you get this recording on internet?
Thanks.
John,
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I can't find it in the iTunes store...is it perhaps only in Europe it is released?
I have checked iTunes US before telling about the release. Try "mahler rattle" and then "show all" or
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=267844592&s=143441
Michael
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I can't find it in the iTunes store...is it perhaps only in Europe it is released?
I have checked iTunes US before telling about the release. Try "mahler rattle" and then "show all" or
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=267844592&s=143441
Michael
Thanks!!!!
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Heard the first two movements so far and I'm very excited with Rattle's treatment, which sounds different than the broadcast.
It may be my top M9...more later after I've heard it a few times...I will say the recording captures all kinds of details in the score I don't hear often.
--Leo
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Leo,
You got me into this!!
I am really excited to hear all the positives about the new Rattle recording from you.
As I am writing this I am listening to Abbado's live M9th with BPO from Berlin,1994. Man, what a great performance!
John,
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I must say by far the greatest & the most idiomatic playing that M9th ever got was from none other than the Philadelphia Orchestra in their 1979 RCA recording. Sadly, when they digitized the tape to CD, much of the splendor of the original analogue recording got lost; the dynamic range was compromised, some details were lost. I got my LPs transferred to CDR and it sounds much better than either RCA CD or Japanese remastered CD. Great conducting from James Levine. Stick with your LPs.
John,
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I must say by far the greatest & the most idiomatic playing that M9th ever got was from none other than the Philadelphia Orchestra in their 1979 RCA recording. Sadly, when they digitized the tape to CD, much of the splendor of the original analogue recording got lost; the dynamic range was compromised, some details were lost. I got my LPs transferred to CDR and it sounds much better than either RCA CD or Japanese remastered CD. Great conducting from James Levine. Stick with your LPs.
John,
I must revist Levine's wonderful M9.
--Leo
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I must revist Levine's wonderful M9.
--Leo
This is definitely worth being reissued on SACD format. It's the kind of analogue recording where many details and subtle dynamics can easily be lost during digital remastering, so it will benefit greatly by the SACD formatting. Ditto Levine/LSO/RCA M6th recording. My LPs of this recording sounds superior to the CD reincarnations in USA and Japan.
John,
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I must revist Levine's wonderful M9.
--Leo
This is definitely worth being reissued on SACD format. It's the kind of analogue recording where many details and subtle dynamics can easily be lost during digital remastering, so it will benefit greatly by the SACD formatting. Ditto Levine/LSO/RCA M6th recording. My LPs of this recording sounds superior to the CD reincarnations in USA and Japan.
John,
I like Levine's M6 and M10 recordings also...I'll keep my eyes peeled for any used LP's around Tucson. I found a used CD of his M7 too, which I haven't heard yet. All and all, I really love Levine's Mahler cycle. Oh, I haven't heard his M3 yet either but I hear it's wonderful.
--Leo