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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: chris on January 01, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
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I just noticed this on the local PBS station's website and thought I'd pass it along.
The broadcast is only two hours long and based on the phrasing, I'd guess the Bartok piece will be broadcast in full with only parts of Rite and M9.
Great Performances: Carnegie Hall Celebrates Berlin (W.T.)
Airs Monday, January 7 at 9:00 pm
GREAT PERFORMANCES returns to Carnegie Hall's famed stage for a celebration with the Berliner Philharmoniker. Featuring the orchestra under the baton of music director and conductor Sir Simon Rattle, "Carnegie Hall Celebrates Berlin" (w.t.) will include highlights from the Hall's two-week "Berlin in Lights" festival in November 2007. Performances include the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela and Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra. The program also features conductor Sir Simon Rattle and the renowned orchestra as they perform such classics as Gustav Mahler's "Symphony No. 9" and Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring."
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I do see it scheduled on the program of my local PBS TV. But its running time is less than 2 hrs, so it might NOT include the entire M9th concert.
John,
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According to the press release, it appears the whole M9 concert will be broadcast, at least thats how I read it:
http://www.thirteen.org/pressroom/pdf/gp/carnegiehall/GPCarnegieHallCelebratesBerlinRelease.pdf
--Todd
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Now I'm not so sure after checking the Great Performances website:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/genre/classical_music.html
There is a wonderful video clip of the M9 though. There is no use watching if the whole M9 isn't played, at least for me.
--Todd
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Thanks. It's a wonderful video. I just hope they will air the entire M9th, not just the Finale as shown here.
John,
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The GP site says:
GREAT PERFORMANCES returns to Carnegie Hall's famed stage for one of the festival's centerpiece events: a performance by the celebrated Berliner Philharmoniker under the baton of its acclaimed music director and conductor, Sir Simon Rattle, of Gustav Mahler's towering "Symphony No. 9.
So perhaps it is the whole symphony? I guess we'll see in a few days.
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I enjoyed the M9 snipped online, but I found it a little funny that it's almost the same place in the 4th movement from one of Bernstein's documentaries doing the M9 with the VPO! I'm so used to Bernstein's gestures that Rattle seems a little restrained by comparison. Still, I like bashing the guy, but it seemed pretty good judging from online.
However...the Bartok with the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela seemed to be pretty freaking amazing. I am often skeptical of the "NEXT BIG THING," but Dudamel seems like he's the real deal.
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However...the Bartok with the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela seemed to be pretty freaking amazing. I am often skeptical of the "NEXT BIG THING," but Dudamel seems like he's the real deal.
I really enjoy Dudamel's M1 - there are two recordings floating around - not my "go to" recording, but I get a kick out of hearing conductors do extreme pushing and pulling with tempos and the like.
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The GP site says:
GREAT PERFORMANCES returns to Carnegie Hall's famed stage for one of the festival's centerpiece events: a performance by the celebrated Berliner Philharmoniker under the baton of its acclaimed music director and conductor, Sir Simon Rattle, of Gustav Mahler's towering "Symphony No. 9.
So perhaps it is the whole symphony? I guess we'll see in a few days.
I'll certainly have my VCR ready!!!
--Todd
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Can someone record the concert Video DIGITALLY? Will there be a satellite broadcast?
John,
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I hope someone can get this digitally, and maybe an audio only recording will float around the net eventually.
I'm pretty excited about this broadcast...can hardly wait! 8)
--Todd
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If somebody can record the sound only from DTV which they are broadcasting along with the analogue channels, that will be nice.
I am gonna catch the 11:00 p.m. DTV....
John,
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I liked the performance a lot. The camera work was very nice and instructional in seeing how everything fits together. I didn't notice any really weird Rattle-isms, and the playing was superb. My only caveat is my local PBS station compress' the signal or something, because there was distortion in big passages. Maybe (praying) there will be a DVD. I kinda doubt it though.
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It was a superb performance, possibly the best live M9th I've seen. But the sonics were somewhat limited in its dynamic range. Oddly, the sound improved as the movements proceed; it's possible the engineers were initially experimenting with balances, volume level, etc. Overall, Rattle's conducting was even better than what I heard from his future EMI release on iTunes. The always smooth but intense BPO played brilliantly, tightly focused and refined.
I seriously doubt there will be a DVD...
John,
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I may get the recording when it comes out. When is the release date again? And how does the itunes version typically compare? If it's reasonable, I may simply buy that, but I've never purchased an itune before!
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John is right, the sonics got better as the performance progressed...the limited sonics kinda ruined the 1st movement for me, as the climaxes barely registered at all. The playing was really on fire from what I could hear! I still prefer the iTunes version, probably cause the sound is better, but this was a very stunning M9 all the same, and it's great to view Rattle and the BPO at work.
The iTunes version doesn't sound bad at all for not being full CD quality, but I'm looking forward to the CD, which I'm hoping will be an improvment in the sonics.
--Todd
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. . . the sonics were somewhat limited in its dynamic range. Oddly, the sound improved as the movements proceed. . . .
I noticed the same thing. Then I discovered my hearing-aid battery had died. Really. :'(
There was no way I would have missed this broadcast, having been shut out from the original performance--Carnegie Hall was sold out. Sir Simon is aging well, I think.
The ending seemed somewhat more "certain" than I am accustomed to. That is, there was a clear termination instead of the almost infinite fade. When listening to CDs, I usually have to look at the player to be sure it has concluded--even when using headphones.
. & '
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I don't know - I thought the BPO strings were fabulous in the fourth movement. But I think that the first three movements would have been more effective if the strings had played a half of a dynamic level softer - maybe even an entire dynamic level softer. It's easy to get seduced by those strings; especially since they whip their torsos all around. But I think that they often times overplayed their dynamic levels. Just listen to how much clearer and cleaner all the textures are when you hear M9 played by the Concertgebouw, or the Staatskapelle Berlin under Barenboim - where the strings aren't nearly so overbearing. The tuba player they have now is much better than the one they had for the last several decades. But I think that their low brass could stand to a bit stronger yet. I also think that those Alexander (French)horns that the use are rather small sounding as well. And their oboes still cover over the rest of the other woodwinds from time to time. I don't know - I thought that it was obviously a very fine performance on the surface. But it was also like hearing something encased in cement. There was sort of a museum quality about it - no surprsies of any kind. It was like watching Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Phil. do the "Symphonic Dances" (Rachmaninoff), or Tchaik. 5.
As for Rattle, I like what he says, and I like what he stands for. He's obviously very knowledgeable and very intelligent. But I still find him difficult to watch. If you're not going to beat time once in a while, why not just walk off and let the orchestra play the piece by themselves? For the most part, what he was doing had very little to do with what they were doing.
There was one spot where he managed to get the orchestra to make some truly ugly, really nasty sounds. That happened just before the third and last waltz section in the second movement. That part I truly enjoyed.
One last complaint: It's become fashionable now to do the Rondo-Burlesque at a slightly slower tempo than in previous decades; saving room for a big accellerando at the end. While I'm favor of the accellerando, I also think that a certain monotonous quality sets in before slower, trumpet lead "trio" section (it's not really a trio, but it acts like one). For me, the best Rondo-Burlesque is still the Bernstein/Concertgebouw one.
Barry
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Unfortunately, I caught the TV performance about half way through the first movement, but saw the rest in its entirety. I thought overall the performance was pretty good, especially being live. I was not quite sure how it was going to go since I'm no Rattle admirer. Thank goodness it wasn't micromanaged to death like I thought it might be. I was a little worried at the beginning of the second movement when the violins first enter; that slow down was a little fussy and I thought we were really in for it then. But, that seemed to be the only huge mannerism I didn't like in the movement.
I agree with Barry on many points. I thought the R-B was a little too slow as well, though the final rush to the end was nice. It does lose some of its demonic character when its played too slowly. I also thought the 'trio' sections with the solo trumpet were too fast for my liking (though the trumpeter played them with ease). The fourth movement of course was gorgeous and the strings really sang out. I enjoyed the horn solos, but why everytime the camera was on him did they never show his face?? Hardly ever did we get a full shot of him. I got tired of watching his fingers. I thought the trumpets were a little too lean sounding for Mahler throughout the symphony.
As for Rattle's conducting, I don't really mind when conductors don't beat time for a bit. If they don't need to, that's fine. Carlos Kleiber very often didn't conduct the beats, and I think some of his recordings and performances have yet to be bettered. Though, I don't really like Rattle's conducting in general. He's much too spastic for my tastes; not fluid at all. So, I really didn't mind when he didn't conduct! I think he was conducting for the camera at times too. If you noticed, not many of the players were ever really looking at him.
Overally, I enjoyed the performance and was even more shocked at the New York audience. They were very well-behaved especially during the final minutes of the symphony and even afterward! I figured it was some sort of miracle in New York City!
Ben
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I also enjoyed the perfomance, but there was no wow factor at all for me, everything was there, good playing, no missed entrances, I'm not sure if it's me or as Barry mentioned the performance coming across as a museum piece. Has this music become like Tchaikovsky's 6th just another piece in the standard repetoir?
I remember listening to Bernstein BPO years ago, and being totally absorbed by it, and a few others since like Kubelik/audite, Bertini Cologne, even Barenboim's held my attention more.
Anyway, I always think as Mahler's music as something special and not just some nice sounding music for an evenings entertainment.
Vatz
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I happened to log on to this forum again this past Tuesday (after a long absence) and found this thread. I immediately checked my local PBS station and saw they were scheduled to broadcast this concert at 3:00 am (!) Wednesday (yesterday). I've just gotten a new HDTV as well as an HD cable box with a built-in DVR, so I set my DVR to record the concert, which I saw was being broadcast in HD. Not having used a DVR before, I was a little worried about whether it would work or not, but all turned out well when I watched it last night. I only had time to watch the first movement, but I was impressed. Great performance, great HD visuals, and the sound quality, though obviously compressed, was fine. When I have time, I'll see about transferring the audio to my Mac digitally to make a CD copy, if anyone's interested.
Russell
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Russell, this is awesome!!! I'd be interested!!!
--Todd
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I happened to log on to this forum again this past Tuesday (after a long absence) and found this thread. I immediately checked my local PBS station and saw they were scheduled to broadcast this concert at 3:00 am (!) Wednesday (yesterday). I've just gotten a new HDTV as well as an HD cable box with a built-in DVR, so I set my DVR to record the concert, which I saw was being broadcast in HD. Not having used a DVR before, I was a little worried about whether it would work or not, but all turned out well when I watched it last night. I only had time to watch the first movement, but I was impressed. Great performance, great HD visuals, and the sound quality, though obviously compressed, was fine. When I have time, I'll see about transferring the audio to my Mac digitally to make a CD copy, if anyone's interested.
Russell
Hey, COUNT ME IN!!! :D
I also watched it on HDTV (they indeed broadcasted the concert in both analogue and digital), but was not terribly impressed with the sonic in the format either. The problem again, was in the first movement - constricted, and carvenous. I too taped the audio signal from the HDTV onto a cassette tape. But I'd be interested to hear your DVDR.
Best,
John,
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OK--before anyone gets too excited, I still have to figure out how to get the audio signal from my DVR into my Mac in digital form. (I know I can always tap the analog outputs and re-digitize it in my Mac--I have a program for this--but I want to keep the signal as 'pure' as possible.) My DVR has audio outputs for coax, optical, and IEEE-1394 (firewire), so there's hopefully an easy (and inexpensive) solution. Any help/ideas would be appreciated, but I think I can probably solve this on my own without too much trouble...
Russell
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The audio has been posted on OperaShare already, if you want to save yourself the work. I'll check in a bit what the source is - I'm not sure if it's digital or not.
OK--before anyone gets too excited, I still have to figure out how to get the audio signal from my DVR into my Mac in digital form. (I know I can always tap theanalog outputs and re-digitize it in my Mac--I have a program for this--but I want to keep the signal as 'pure' as possible.) My DVR has audio outputs for coax, optical, and IEEE-1394 (firewire), so there's hopefully an easy (and inexpensive) solution. Any help/ideas would be appreciated, but I think I can probably solve this on my own without too much trouble...
Russell
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Chris,
Let me know where I can get the audio file. Meanwhile, I listened to my tape again. I am convinced this is an excellent M9th, one that surpasses Rattle's three previous recordings (one with VPO, two with BPO). The sound is not perfect but otherwise has plenty of ambiance and depth.
John,
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The files on OperaShare are from an FM radio broadcast - I didn't sample it, but it will almost certainly have a "buzz" that Russell's won't.
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Oh now the pressure's on! ;D
Russell
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Oh now the pressure's on! ;D
Russell
No pressure, just don't screw up! ;)
I've been thinking about how you can transfer it - the low fi way I'd do it is get a RCA to mini cord (RadioShack has them for a few dollars), audio out it on your DVR to your microphone jack on your computer and then use a recorder program to get it in .wav or high quality .mp3 format (I use http://www.opcode.co.uk/opd2d/default.asp). There's most likely a better way, but I don't know it.
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Thanks, Chris. I'll do it that way if I can't find an all-digital solution. (I've transferred many analog cassettes and reel-to-reel tapes that way.) I'll be attending Macworld Expo here in SF next week, and I'll ask around there. I'm convinced there's got to be a relatively straightforward way to extract the audio files.
Russell
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Well, it looks like an optical (Toslink) cable from the DVR to my Mac (which, unusually, has an optical-in jack) might work, so I'll explore that option. Stay tuned.
Russell
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I had another listen at this M9 tonight, in particular I focused on the two middle movements. I feel what makes this performance such a success is the utter life brought to play in these movements...such character in the instrumental detail within the well paced action is breathtaking at almost every turn. Such playing sounds very spontaneous.
--Todd
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It was a superb performance, possibly the best live M9th I've seen. But the sonics were somewhat limited in its dynamic range. Oddly, the sound improved as the movements proceed; it's possible the engineers were initially experimenting with balances, volume level, etc. Overall, Rattle's conducting was even better than what I heard from his future EMI release on iTunes. The always smooth but intense BPO played brilliantly, tightly focused and refined.
I seriously doubt there will be a DVD...
John,
Sorry, replying about one year later!
I just saw this performance on New Year's Eve and agree it's absolutely among the best (even though I missed the First Movement. We have a re-broadcast here tomorrow, which I intend to record (the sound won't be DTS or anything fancy).
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OK--before anyone gets too excited, I still have to figure out how to get the audio signal from my DVR into my Mac in digital form. (I know I can always tap the analog outputs and re-digitize it in my Mac--I have a program for this--but I want to keep the signal as 'pure' as possible.) My DVR has audio outputs for coax, optical, and IEEE-1394 (firewire), so there's hopefully an easy (and inexpensive) solution. Any help/ideas would be appreciated, but I think I can probably solve this on my own without too much trouble...
Russell
Well, after little over a year (!), I was finally able to copy the file from my DVR (not a simple process, as it turned out) and extract the audio portion, all while keeping everything totally in the digital domain. If anyone's still interested in a CD copy (John? Todd? Chris? Others?) just send me an e-mail (orgrsl@mac.com). I think it sounds pretty good. (I'd offer a copy of the HD video, but it's just over 9GB!!!)
Russell
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Russell kindly sent me a copy and I thoroughly enjoyed my listening. The sound quality is amazingly very good and free of distortion, dynamic compression. I am now convinced this concert is overall better than the EMI release; there is just a tad more spontaneity, urgency in this live concert.
John,
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If anyone is a member of Demonoid, I uploaded my copy of this performance. Decent image and sound, not too big file size (a bit over 1GB):
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1767194/15854172/ (http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1767194/15854172/) :)
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If anyone is a member of Demonoid, I uploaded my copy of this performance. Decent image and sound, not too big file size (a bit over 1GB):
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1767194/15854172/ (http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1767194/15854172/) :)
Someone posted this on OperaShare recently too.