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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: John Kim on June 05, 2008, 05:49:40 PM
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I heard it and LOVEd it ;D
Clearly, there are parts in this realization that sound far more convincing than any other versions and the other parts are just fine.
PL, someone like Barry or DH give your thoughts.
Thanks.
John,
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I will hear this soon...glad you like it John...I have my fingers crossed!!!
--Todd
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I've been holding off because I wanted more of you to hear it first. Leo should be getting his soon. I have to say, as a performance, I really enjoyed the pirate of the premiere performance in Perugia, Italy much more (Vienna Symphony). This one strikes me as a tad lax in comparison. Also, the vastly clearer sound has actually made me like the S/M version a bit less than I did before. I don't know if S/M have added lots of useless, busy-sounding fillegree since its premiere, but I notice a lot more small stuff that bothers me now. I still like some of the "bigger picture" issues that get addressed with S/M, and I'll go into that more later on. I've got to jump off now, so I'll pick this up later.
Barry
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Besides the version, I like the clean, forthright style of the conducting and playing on this disc. It allows me to hear the piece a la carte without a bias but with sincere musicality. Sieghart's approach is not much different than in his M6th and DLVDE but combined with the generally slow speed (over 26 min. for I.) and extremely fine sound quality, it provides a fascinating listening experience.
John,
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I've been listening to this for some 3 weeks now, and I have to say it grows on me.
I attended one of the concerts in december last year, and I remember noticing the "useless, busy-sounding fillegree" Barry speaks of. It kind of bothered me back then. Compared to this performance - on which occasion the orchestra's playing was very well, mind you (I'm a lucky guy to be living near Arnhem, where this orchestra is based, and just some 80 miles from Amsterdam, where I can attend a wide range of fantastic concerts as well) - the performance of this recording is a bit 'easier', so I guess that's why the small stuff doesn't bother me this time.
And the sound quality is another reason why I hope Exton-issues will be more readily available in Europe and the US in the near future!
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I've listened to the recording again on full speakers. This time I LOved it even more :D
Like I said, what attract me to this recording are the classy conducting and playing in the exceptional sound quality. The dynamic range is huge, the sound stage big, and no little detail gets lost in this sumptuous recording.
A winner in all aspects. Along with Litton/DSO/Delos version this is probably my top favorite of M10 (of any version).
John,
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I'm going to be able to hear this more carefully this afternoon. I did hear the first three movements and some of the fourth movement the other day, and was somewhat dissapointed at the lack of drive compared to the pirate recording, and more orchestration has been added, beefing up the texture...I like the state of the S/M completion on the pirate much better.
Still, this is well recorded and look forward to hearing it again this afternoon!
--Todd
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"I like the state of the S/M completion on the pirate much better".
Me too. I haven't done a comparison yet, have you? It just seems like I'm now hearing lots of smaller stuff that doesn't sound terribly idiomatic of Mahler, and is just clogging up the arteries. The percussion writing really bothers me now.
While I think it's very important to make the reprise of the harrowing, expressionistic climax louder and more terrifying in the fifth movement, I don't think it makes much sense to add percussion to the same climax back in the first movement. I know that D.H. would be very opposed to doing that. Also, S/M added a series of rapid cymbal crashes at the end of the first scherzo. I strongly doubt that Mahler would ever would have done that. I do like the snare drum on the last five notes of the first scherzo.
It just seems to me that the Perugia performance sounds leaner and less clogged up. Again, maybe it's just that we're hearing what S/M wrote more clearly now. But it's rather like comparing Ormandy (Cooke I) to Slatkin or Lopez-Cobos (Mazzetti I and II).
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Barry,
I have not done a comparison as yet, but my memory of the pirate recalls I leaner texture, as you just said, and it souded much more daring, or "edgy" dramatically (and sounded slightly more Mahlerian if I recall correctly). On the Arheim version, I am reminded of the Barshai completion!
--Todd
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I've listened to the pirate recording by Sieghart/VSO but it didn't sound all that different than the Exton recording. But I noticed small differences here and there. It's possible that they revised yet again after the premiere concert. Anyhow, I treasure the Exton recording; I have played 6 times already and I am not tired of listening to it. I know when a M10th recording doesn't sound tiresome after 10th playing in less than a week this must be really a good one. So, four more listening ahead ;)
John,
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Wow John! 6 times!
I'm on my 2nd listen (at the purgatorio now), and indeed I like the performance much better (the 1st scherzo sounds more exciting than my first impression)...Sieghart's performances usually grow on me after the first few listens.
--Todd
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The 2nd scherzo and Finale are revelatory to me...better than any completion I've heard so far (I like that the woodwinds are used more instead of strings in some sections)...(still listening here)
I wonder if there were just a few adjustments to the S/M score...
--Todd
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Todd,
I hope Sieghart and his orchestra will record a M9th in exactly the same fashion and sound quality. That will be a Mahler Ninth for John.
John,
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The rest of the finale is quite good...I was hoping the final climax would be more full and powerful, but I have this problem with all M10 recordings. The 1st movement climax always sounds more climatic than the climax in the finale!
The quiet aftermath (after the big climax) is effectively scored, and makes this finale very special. I am quite happy overall now I have heard the complete performance.
--Todd
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John,
It sounds as if the Macal M9 almost became your favorite, and perhaps if the last three movements were played more like Sieghart's objective consideration or pace...as in this M10, you would have the M9 of your dreams!
I think I would like a Sieghart M9 as well.
--Todd
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John,
It sounds as if the Macal M9 almost became your favorite, and perhaps if the last three movements were played more like Sieghart's objective consideration or pace...as in this M10, you would have the M9 of your dreams!
I think I would like a Sieghart M9 as well.
--Todd
Precisely. I've been longing for a M9th that would go as you described. When I am listening to Sieghart's M10 I imagine how his M9 will sound and then realize that version might just be my dream come true. The Macal comes pretty close and I can live with just that recording. But Sieghart may someday beat Macal. Hey, it's all for me 8)
John,
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I've been listening to this for some 3 weeks now, and I have to say it grows on me.
It would seem that Todd has the same experience with this recording. I had to listen twice to be able to realy form an opinion on this one. After my fourth hearing I'm almost as enthousiastic about it as John is.
I hope Sieghart and his orchestra will record a M9th in exactly the same fashion and sound quality. That will be a Mahler Ninth for John.
There may be a chance... Sieghart will leave the orchestra next year, but will remain honorary guest-conductor until 2012. And Kobayashi is a regular guest as well, so maybe he'll take up some Mahler with this orchestra. I would certainly welcome that (as I said, I live just 10 minutes from the orchestra's main hall: Musis Sacrum in Arnhem).
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Freddy,
If I remember correctly...you like Sieghart's Das Lied as well?
Sieghart's Das Lied is among my favorites of that work....right up there near the top.
His M6 is wonderful...as slow performances go, it certain keeps my attention...it took a couple passes though to get into it!
I'm about to compare his M10 with Vienna to his new Exton release...
--Todd
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John,
It sounds as if the Macal M9 almost became your favorite, and perhaps if the last three movements were played more like Sieghart's objective consideration or pace...as in this M10, you would have the M9 of your dreams!
I think I would like a Sieghart M9 as well.
--Todd
Precisely. I've been longing for a M9th that would go as you described. When I am listening to Sieghart's M10 I imagine how his M9 will sound and then realize that version might just be my dream come true. The Macal comes pretty close and I can live with just that recording. But Sieghart may someday beat Macal. Hey, it's all for me 8)
John,
John,
I've discovered the Olson/CO Mahlerfest to be my dream M9 lately, in terms of pace and dynamics (especially in the outer movements)!
A Sieghart M9 may come close to Olson's construction...they are similar in their approach I think.
--Todd
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Todd,
I really like both M6 and Das Lied by Sieghart. I attended the dLvdE concert as well.
I'm very much a fan of slow M6's and I love the Abschied by Sieghart and Stotijn!
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Now I have listened to this recording 8 times and am still ready to go for 2 more times ::).
I really like the way S-M treats the huge climax in I. with an added bass drum roll. I think the Scherzo II. is a model of clarity but it is also orchestrated with Maherian idioms. But nobody can do much about Scherzo I. as they couldn't here. It is the most problematic movt. of M10th after all. Still, S-M do as good a job as anyone before them; it sounds somewhere between Mazzetti II and Carpenter versions.
But again what I like most about this recording is the clearcut, classy conducting and playing recorded in sumptuous sound by Exton engineers.
John,
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I think that there's TOO MUCH percussion added to the climactic passage in the first movement. This sort of, "shoots one's wad" (so to speak), as it somewhat diminishes the impact of adding percussion to the reprise of the same climax in the fifth movement. David thinks that there should be zero percussion added to the first movement - anywhere. I'm willing to concede a mezzoforte tam-tam stroke at the start of the loud outburst, with only a discrete bass drum roll added into the few meaures that precede the four-bar passage that has the upper strings playing pizzicato notes (followed by the dissonant climax). In my opinion, no percussion should be added during the dissonant part itself (save it for the finale).