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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: akiralx on July 03, 2008, 08:54:15 AM
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I've recently got into Levine's recordings after only being vaguely aware of him - and have found that nigh on every CD I hear is top notch.
For years I enjoyed his BPO Saint-Saens Organ Symphony on DG, but have got the Celebration in Music DG set, which has great versions of the Prokofiev 5th (CSO) and Sibelius 4th with the BPO - I recall the original CD of 4 and 5 got poor reviews, but this sounds v good to me, my favourite Sibelius syphony. His Rite of Spring is excellent too.
The VPO Brahms set is hard to find but I tracked down a CD of the Third and it is outstanding. Apparently his earlier set was good but not too decent sonically, on LP at least - I believe the Japanese CDs sound fine.
I've got one or two of his LSO and Philadelphia Mahler recordings which are enjoyable - and the reissued Dvorak 7th and 9th with the CSO is superb, especially the 7th. The remastering seems to have worked very well.
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I like a good number of his recordings. Unfortunately, most of his RCA recordings suffer from poor sonics (IMO), although some of the Japanese remasters that I have offer sonic improvement. Both of his Brahms cycles are among my favorites. The VPO/DG one is available from Arkiv as one of their commercial CD-R sets. I also have a copy of the Japanese remastering of the CSO/RCA cycle. I do not have the remaster of the Dvorak 9 that you mention (nor any version of the 7th). The version that I own is absolutely unlistenable due to a SCREECHY high end. It DOES sound like a performance I would enjoy if I had one with better sonics.
I find most of his RCA Mahler cycle to be quite enjoyable, despite the variable sonics. His M4, M6, M7, and M9 are among my favorites. I would easily add his M3 to the list of not for the 40 minute finale (or perhaps it's closer to 27'? :D ). The M5 is a favorite of many, but it didn't do much for me the couple of times I've listened to it. I can't rememeber if I own the M1. I also like his Berlin/DG DLvdE, despite its slow tempos. I even like the singing of Norman and Jerusalem (I recognize that they are not favorites of others). On the downside, I find his M10 to be the worst of all Cooke versions (awful finale), and his Munich M9 is uninspiring.
Other recordings of his that I enjoy:
Beethoven Piano Concertos w/ Brendel/CSO
I can't say that his Saint-Saens Organ Symphony does much for me (I prefer slightly over-the-top finales); same for his Sibelius 2.
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I tend to be somewhat cynical about Levine. I think that his best years are behind him, but I also feel that he did an outstanding job with the N.Y. Met. Opera over the last several decades. But at this point, I feel that he and Boston pretty much deserve each other. I do like the Celtics and Red Sox though (not so much the Patriots). I just got tired and fed up with hearing what an improvement Levine is supposed to be over Ozawa. That gets old quick.
Barry
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I have an unusual reason for my love of Levine's M3 with the CSO and Marilyn Horne: the cover art.
The cover art features an illustration by the noted children's book artist, Maurice Sendak.
It shows animals as musicians, at night, gathering around Mahler's composing hut, with an angel outside the window, passing in a bouquet of roses to Gustav Mahler.
I had an old LP of this, which I had framed and mounted. It's a romantic vision of Mahler that I will always cherish.
John H
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I'd love to have the Levine/BPO Prokofiev 5th and Sibelius 4th (I believe they also recorded Sibelius 2nd). Where can I get them?
As for Levine's Mahler, his M5-M7, and M9 are top notch versions. I also like his M3 and M1 but slightly less. Like I said many times, I love Levine's DLVDE with BPO and Jerusalem, Norman very much.
I've heard live concerts of M2nd and M8th by Levine and they too were first rate. For me what distinguishes his Mahler are a keen sense of rhythms and emphasis on making clear lines in the string. On top of this, he has a fine skill of putting all the details into a cohesive whole.
I just wish Levine had a second chance to rerecord all the Mahler symphonies with BPO or MET in improved sound, perhaps with DG.
John,
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I just wish Levine had a second chance to rerecord all the Mahler symphonies with BPO or MET in improved sound, perhaps with DG.
I'm afraid that I don't agree with that. At this point, it simply isn't necessary. Levine now conducts Mahler much, much slower than he used to. We just don't need any more tired sounding, slow renditions regardless of the amount of detail that may or may not get unveiled in the process. But regardless of what I think, the economics of the times are not going to grant you your wish; unless, of course, a lot of corporate subsidy money were to suddenly show up. Not likely.
Barry
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I'd love to have the Levine/BPO Prokofiev 5th and Sibelius 4th (I believe they also recorded Sibelius 2nd). Where can I get them?
John,
http://www.amazon.com/A-Celebration-in-Music/dp/B0000942ML/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1215161534&sr=8-3
This is a good set, one CD per orchestra (CSO, VPO, BPO, Met) - pity they didn't use the Brahms 3 instead of Brahms 1. The Bartok and Mozart are not top choices but the remainder here is very fine. And unlike most of these compilations, they were chosen by JL himself.
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Thanks.
I happen to own the Transfigured Night by Levine/BPO and have enjoyed it enormously.
$31.00 for the 4 discs is a good value.
John,
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As much as I'm not crazy over Levine's orchestral recordings for DG, they really did an outstanding job in choosing material for this particular box set. I saw him do Brahms 1 at Carnegie Hall with the VPO, and it was outstanding. He's always very good with the so-called "Second Viennese School" music: Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern. The Prokofiev 5th with Chicago is very good - far better than "The Planets" he recorded with them. By all means, pick this up.
Barry
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OK, OK, ordered just now :D :-[
John,
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I have to say, Levine's Mozart recordings of #38 and 39 (with the VPO) are my favorite Mozart symphonie recordings. Sadly, I no longer have this album, and can't find it anywhere :'( :'( :'(
--Todd
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He is a strange man: such an unlimited potential so casually drawn upon. Many of the things he's recorded are really terrible (an example for me but not others is Das Lied), unlistenable I'd say, but a few are simply really outstanding. Prime examples of the latter:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/63/ea/0c07eb6709a05982e4bb0110._AA240_.L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4182DKHY6ZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Listening especially to the Missa always makes me think of what might have been. I think he fell victim to the NYC cultural climate. But he always seemed to be on a completely different plane when performing live in concerts.
PT
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I've always wondered about that particular Missa Solemnis. Interesting.
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Like I said repeatedly, I don't find Levine's DLVDE unlistenable. I actually love it :P
Except for his BPO recording of Wagner, Strauss, Schoenberg, Berg violin concerto, and Saint-Saens Third, I have not listened to many of Levine's recordings outside the GM territory.
But I once heard a live M3rd by Levine and BSO (2001) that was rapturous, beautiful, and heavenly. Those Boston strings engulfing out their last ounce of sumptuous and glowing sound in the Finale (which lasted nearly 30 min.) alone was worth sitting through the performance.
Now that I ordered the 4 discs set I will have a chance to sample Levine's talent in more general repertoire.
John,
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I find most of his RCA Mahler cycle to be quite enjoyable, despite the variable sonics. His M4, M6, M7, and M9 are among my favorites. I would easily add his M3 to the list of not for the 40 minute finale (or perhaps it's closer to 27'? :D ). The M5 is a favorite of many, but it didn't do much for me the couple of times I've listened to it. I can't rememeber if I own the M1. I also like his Berlin/DG DLvdE, despite its slow tempos. I even like the singing of Norman and Jerusalem (I recognize that they are not favorites of others). On the downside, I find his M10 to be the worst of all Cooke versions (awful finale), and his Munich M9 is uninspiring.
Levine's M5th is a great one, IMO. It is impeccably played and the sound is far better than his M9th with the same orchestra. As always, Levine adopts lively, dynamic rhythms throughout and keeps things in a cohesive whole. It has many Mahlerian feels to it too; the angry II. and deeply felt Adagio followed by high spirited Finale. I think it is also DH's top choice.
John,
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...and I don't mind a slow tempo in M3:VI. Abbado, Levine, Bernstein (in DG version especially), MTT, Litton, Haitink II. all stretched it to 27-30 min. scale, and they all worked fine for me. The music is heavenly and hence it can naturally be played slowly for a maximum effect. It means so much to me that I can sit through half hour for the movt. Having said this, I confess the recording that has the greatest Finale of them all is Lenny's earlier NYPO recording which was 25 min. long.
John,
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I've always wondered about that particular Missa Solemnis. Interesting.
If I had to pick just one recording of this "alienated masterpiece" (Adorno), it'd indeed be Levine's. The recording is amazingly good (it's a ridiculously difficult-to-record work, especially when realized live as in the Levine -- it's from Salzburg), the performance truly inspired, the soloist almost unfathomably great (and how tough the parts are to pull off!). It's one of these performances of which, after hearing them, you can say nothing except "It is perfect" and quietly let out a sigh. There are others where one could prefer some individual quartet members for the quality of their voice (but not their quality as singers) but probably nothing better played, such as the Klemperer (another great one for me), maybe Boehm (similarly with the late great Martti Talvela, but for me it's Margaret Price that alone makes this unique [plus of course Christa Ludwig who is always perfect] -- so I'm talking about Boehm's latter recording for DG), and one that probably very few have heard but is one of the absolutely most inspired and moving performances of this work, Antal Dorati on BIS. The singers aren't quite on par with some of the others mentioned but the performance on the whole is so well judged and balanced that it never tires you like most others and the strain brought to the performance by the level of commitment by all the parties concerned simply brings you to tears. (Moreover there are lengthy rehearsal excerpts as a filler which are quite informative and fascinating.) But it is the overall sophistication of the execution and the recorded sound in the Levine that makes it perhaps the most ideal in this very peculiar and demanding work.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414E7JSP1HL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
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Like I said repeatedly, I don't find Levine's DLVDE unlistenable. I actually love it :P
Except for his BPO recording of Wagner, Strauss, Schoenberg, Berg violin concerto, and Saint-Saens Third, I have not listened to many of Levine's recordings outside the GM territory.
But I once heard a live M3rd by Levine and BSO (2001) that was rapturous, beautiful, and heavenly.
Yeah, I know... Vive la difference! I myself have pitifully little explored his Mahler discography. Somehow, I never felt the desire, based on some other recordings, even though as said his concert performances could really be standouts in the orchestral season. One thing he can really do is lay out the lines with terrific clarity (an asset in Schoenberg for sure!) and judge the rhythmic qualities correctly with the timing always sounding so natural and beautifully plastic.
I'd be curious to hear what you think of those other Levine performances you've ordered.
PT
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I've always wondered about that particular Missa Solemnis. Interesting.
If I had to pick just one recording of this "alienated masterpiece" (Adorno), it'd indeed be Levine's. The recording is amazingly good (it's a ridiculously difficult-to-record work, especially when realized live as in the Levine -- it's from Salzburg), the performance truly inspired, the soloist almost unfathomably great (and how tough the parts are to pull off!). It's one of these performances of which, after hearing them, you can say nothing except "It is perfect" and quietly let out a sigh. There are others where one could prefer some individual quartet members but probably nothing better played, such as the Klemperer (another great one for me), maybe Boehm (similarly with the late great Martti Talvela, but for me it's Margaret Price that alone makes this unique [plus of course Christa Ludwig who is always perfect] -- so I'm talking about Boehm's latter recording for DG), and one that probably very few have heard but is one of the absolutely most inspired and moving performances of this work, Antal Dorati on BIS. The singers aren't quite on par with some of the others mentioned but the performance on the whole is so well judged and balanced that it never tires you like most others and the strain brought to the performance by the level of commitment by all the parties concerned simply brings you to tears. (Moreover there are lengthy rehearsal excerpts as a filler which are quite informative and fascinating.) But it is the overall sophistication of the execution and the recorded sound in the Levine that makes it perhaps the most ideal in this very peculiar and demanding work.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414E7JSP1HL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I agree. It's a superb performance. One of these days, I'll actually buy it. I have checked it out from the library repeatedly, and it IS perfect. It's meant as a tribute to both Karajan, since it was done at the Salzburg Festival, if I recall. Plus, it's in memoriam to the concertmaster featured in the recording. (Also, if I recall. Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong.) For me, it might be Levine's best recording.
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Yes, Gerhart Hetzel who passed away just prior to the release of the recording (he is still there in it for the violin solo part). (But I try to ignore the Karajan reference... :P)
I think for me, too, this is Jimmy Levine at his very best.
PT
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Love him or hate him, (I've done both in my hears of listening), Karajan may have had two of the best classical equivalents of a "tribute" album. The Levine Missa Solemnis, and Bernstein's disc of Beethoven String Quartet Op. 135 transcribed for string orchestra. I wouldn't be shocked if someday they both end up as discmates.
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Love him or hate him, (I've done both in my hears of listening), Karajan may have had two of the best classical equivalents of a "tribute" album. The
And -- horror of horrors! -- a third one, Abbado's Mozart Requiem...
PT
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I love the final Adagio of Levine Mahler's Ninth with Munich Philharmonique in Oehms Classics. There are many great renditions of this movement but this has all the electricity of a live concert intensifying the performance.
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I love the final Adagio of Levine Mahler's Ninth with Munich Philharmonique in Oehms Classics. There are many great renditions of this movement but this has all the electricity of a live concert intensifying the performance.
Is that right? Uhm... I think of Levine's latest M9th less, less than his earlier RCA recording with Philadelphia Orch. I liked the first movt. from the Munich recording but was somewhat let down from there on - not much vigor, passion but rather a mechanical execution of the notes. Certainly, the Philly one had them all on the other hand. Not that a bad recording but not exceptional either.
John,
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John, thanks for your input. I'll try to get Levine's RCA Ninth. It is not easy to find it here in Europe. Regarding the Munich CD I enjoy in the Adagio the string playing for its extraordinary richness and density. It is one of the slowest in the discography; quite extreme so I understand well that it is not for all tastes. Levine manages to to sustain a flowing line. To my taste the outcome is extremely emotional.
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John, thanks for your input. I'll try to get Levine's RCA Ninth. It is not easy to find it here in Europe. Regarding the Munich CD I enjoy in the Adagio the string playing for its extraordinary richness and density. It is one of the slowest in the discography; quite extreme so I understand well that it is not for all tastes. Levine manages to to sustain a flowing line. To my taste the outcome is extremely emotional.
In that case, you'll find the RCA M9th even more to your liking. Those Philly strings will kill you ;) :D
John,
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Perhaps it is pertinent to report that James Levine will have a kidney removed this week. The operation will take him out of Tanglewood for the rest of the season, but he will return to the Met on September 18 to conduct Verdi's Requiem in commemoration of Pavarotti's death last September. The kidney is being removed because of a cyst.
. & '
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Yes, Gerhart Hetzel who passed away just prior to the release of the recording (he is still there in it for the violin solo part).
PT
He was killed in an Alpine climbing accident, I recall.
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He was killed in an Alpine climbing accident, I recall.
Sbugala got me in a citational mode:
"He [Hetzel] had been walking with Regula [his wife] and his son Joachim in the public park in Salzburg where the family had a house in which they lived for the summer while he and the orchestra performed for the Mozart Festival. On this occasion Gerhart tripped on the path and fell into the nearby ravine on his head. He never regained consciousness and died shortly afterwards." (Basil S. Hetzel, Chance and Commitment: Memoirs of a Medical Scientist, Wakefield Press 2007, p. 267.)
How very trivial. We never know what the next day will bring.
PT
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langsam, aber nich schleppend
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langsam, aber nich schleppend
You mean he was maybe doing it too much lustig im Tempo und keck im Ausdruck?
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UUF DA! My rude remark has come back to bite me!
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Don't they always... :)
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Saw this on the Mahler List (Phil Garon)...update on Mr.Levine's condition:
[This message was posted to the RMCR discussion group today. If it is
accurate, it sounds like good news indeed. - Phil Garon]
Perhaps to put a stopper on the absurd yet predictable postings on this
subject, I forward the following:
Dear [Metropolitan Opera] Company Members,
I am pleased to report that James Levine was released from the hospital
this
past weekend after surgery to remove his kidney and is now recuperating at
home.
Tom Levine, Jim's brother, said "doctors found the growth to be malignant,
but it was very small and confined to the central area of his right
kidney.
Fortunately, as the growth was discovered early enough, it had not spread
to
the surrounding tissues, blood vessels, or lymph nodes. Doctors reported
the surgery was completely curative and no further treatment is
necessary."
Tom also said that Jim was very relieved by the doctors' report, is in
very
good spirits, and is looking forward to conducting the opening events of
our
season.
Best regards,
Peter Gelb [who is the Met Opera business director]
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Best wishes to Mr Levine for a speedy recovery.
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Todd,
Thanks for relaying to us Peter Gelb's explanation of Levine's condition.
Looking forward to many more excellent opera performances from Levine.