gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: merlin on December 06, 2008, 11:27:00 PM
-
Just finished listening to this -- amazing!! Lots of frissons, especially in the last part.
But since I had found the Rattle/CBSO CD to be fairly boring (the only version I had until today), I am wondering if the SACD SQ played a large part in my experience.
What have other found in this respect, in terms of different versions of various works?
-
What's a frisson? ;)
This happens to be my favorite overall recording of the work. None of them get every single detail 100% perfect, but this one comes closer than most. Like Klemperer, Fischer takes the second movement at a more flowing tempo, but then takes the scherzo slower than usual; bringing out the ironic humor behind St. Anthony's Sermon to the Fishes (the corresponding Wunderhorn song). After a solid mezzo performance, the finale is terrific. There could a tad more organ for my own liking, but it's sufficient. But more than any other recording I know of the work, Fischer's is best in clarifying Mahler's exacting polyphony between the the three tiefe glocken (deep bells) and two tam-tams (high and low pitched) at the end of the symphony. That may seem like a minor or purely academic point, but Mahler's polyphonic writing for the percussion is pretty much the only thing that's going on at the end of the symphony, other than the high brass sounding the tonic and dominant notes. Everything else is just pedal point and sustained chords. Also, Channel Classics did a terrific job in capturing a live performance in decent sound.
-
Ditto on what Barry said. And Rattle mostly IS boring, where he's not just plain incompetent.
Dave H
-
Frissons, for me, are shivers running up and down my spine. In other words, emotional excitement and epiphanous experiences.
Not necessarily confined to music....
-
"Frissons"
Sounds like a good term. I also like "epiphanous experiences."
-
Yeah, OK. It's probably the extra "oomph" of those bells and gongs that help push you over the edge. When they're inaudible, the end of the "Resurrection" symphony can actually sound pretty static. Again, this may seem like a point that only a Mahler-lover could care about, but it obviously meant a lot to Mahler himself, since he took the trouble to have his own set of bells casted (cast?) for the work.
My guess is that gongs (tam-tams) probably left something for the imagination in those days, but I'll bet that Mahler made certain that they got struck plenty hard. Remember, it was a common trick to end dramatic opera acts with a big gong roll in those days. Few conductors would resort to such "cheap theatrics" these days.
Barry
-
I have tried to get this SACD several times both online and in stores, but the price was simply outrageous (over $30) :-\
Does anyone know a good place to buy it?
John,
-
Why is that price outrageous? How much would a ticket to see the concert cost you? And why is $30+ bad just because you can get it cheaper with other forces on other labels? Listen folks, if the performance is a great one, $30 is a bargain, and it's the unwillingness of the supposed "hard core" classical listeners to dish out reasonable $$ to support hard-working independent labels that is at least partially responsible for the hard times the classical recordings industry is going through. If labels like Channel Classics, that do such excellent work, don't survive because you aren't willing to spend as much money as you would willingly dish out for a meal at a second-class restaurant, you will have no one but yourselves to blame. Consider yourselves on notice.
Dave H
-
Whilst I certainly agree with Dave relative to the cost of discs of excellent performances, I paid about $18 including airmail shipping from MDT. Their prices are generally less than anything stateside.
-
Yes, Barry, it probably was that extra oomph at the end! I certainly heard the interplay between the percussion instruments as well.
Thanks, as always, for your incredibly insightful comments, in this case as to exactly what was happening at that point in the music!
I also would be interested in your opinion of Fischer's M6.
-
Well, certainly if you can get the SAME DISC for less money, by all means, indulge! There's no reason anyone has to support a retailer (as opposed to a label). I routinely order Testament from the UK because it's about half the price as I often see here--but please, do support these fine independent labels. If you folks don't, then who will?
Dave H
-
Well, certainly if you can get the SAME DISC for less money, by all means, indulge! There's no reason anyone has to support a retailer (as opposed to a label). I routinely order Testament from the UK because it's about half the price as I often see here--but please, do support these fine independent labels. If you folks don't, then who will?
Dave H
I am willing to support independent labels like Channels and that's why I asked where I can get the M2 SACD at a reasonable price. For myself, I am not desperately looking for another M2 but since I have heard so much praise about this one I've decided to indulge. But I didn't think $30+ was reasonable because I felt I could get it a lower price elsewhere. It is always customers' best interest to buy things cheaply.
Regards,
John,
-
I agree with all the postive comments here, this is a great M2 indeed! I also really like Bertini's M2, but of course the Fischer has great sound.
--Todd
-
Hi John,
If you are in the US I find Newburycomics often have great prices.
The Fischer M2 is $23.95 plus $3.50 postage :
http://www.newburycomics.com/rel/v2_viewupc.php?storenr=103&upc=72338523506
MDT in the UK currently have it at an offer price of GBP11.06 (ex VAT) plus postage (converts to about US$16.50 plus $1.10 postage to the US).
http://www.mdt.co.uk
I have bought many discs from them and their service is excellent.
-
John, you could do as i did and buy it from an Amazon seller. However, that did not work out well for me in this case. My copy has some sort of dropouts near the end, where the soprano makes her entrance over the quiet chorus. The seller never responded to my e-mails, and Amazon refunded the purchase. I will probably replace it at some point. I still have the discs, but seldom play it because the dropouts are so distracting.
-
It's very tempting - but do I really need a fourth M2 on SACD ;D
And that's in addition to all the great ones on CD.... But at MDT's price I may treat myself.
-
I was asked for my thoughts on Fischer's Mahler 6, so here goes.
By and large, I feel that Fischer's "Resurrection" is clearly better than his M6. However, Fischer's M6 isn't poor by any means. The first three movements are rather quick and light weight - almost as though they are preludes to the finale. The finale, though, really is quite good. As I recall, the hammer blows aren't overwhelming, but are clearly sufficient. Timings are fairly similar to Abbado's recent Berlin remake on DG. Naturally, it's better recorded than the Abbado. In the first movement, I like how Fischer's "Alma theme" - the second subject of the exposition - simply jumps right out of the box. It's not in the least bit lethargic sounding, or overly languorous.
-
Thanks, Barry. I have the Barbirolli/NPO of M6, and although the performance is mostly excellent, the basically inaudible hammer blows absolutely ruin the last part. Without them being quite loud, the whole point of the symphony is lost.
From what you wrote about Fischer M6, it would seem that you much prefer Zinman's version.
-
"From what you wrote about Fischer M6, it would seem that you much prefer Zinman's version"
I would say that Fischer is the equal of Zinman in the finale. However, Zinman has HUGE hammer strokes - really, almost too much - and his first three movements are more substantial than Fischer's. For the moment, Zinman's Mahler 6 is my personal favorite. It validates that I wasn't entirely out of my mind for preferring Zinman's S.F. performance of M6 to MTT's (which I loathed).
Barry
-
It's very tempting - but do I really need a fourth M2 on SACD
Yes, of course you do! You can never have too many M2's (or 3's or 8's...)
-
Listened to this disc for the second time just a short while ago, and was blown away again. The performance and SQ are astounding.
And I immediately ordered his M6.