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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Russ Smiley on January 20, 2009, 05:09:07 AM

Title: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Russ Smiley on January 20, 2009, 05:09:07 AM
Besides Barenboim/Warner and Gielen/Saphir, what are some other M9s on a single disk?

Any preferenences? and why?
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 20, 2009, 05:40:51 AM
My best single disc M9th is Svetlanov/het Residente Orkest. I think it can still be ordered from Europe with a little bit of luck.

Abbado/BPO/DG has been wildly praised, although I have some issues with the sound.

Kubelik/BRSO/Audite or DG is also a good choice.

Considering the availability, Barenboim is probably the bets bet for now.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Jeff Wozniak on January 20, 2009, 04:25:43 PM
I've always love Bernstein's Sony/Columbia M9.  Probably my favorite recording of the 9th.  You can probably get the single CD on line somewhere for about $10 new, probably cheaper used.  It's available as part of a 3 disc hybrid SACD set coupled with the 6th symphony as well for alot more money, but the improvement in sound of both symphonies is worth it to me.

I really like Abbado's DG 9th as well.   

One that seems to be overlooked quite often is Ancerl's single disc 9th.  This is a real keeper in my book.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PDRTHQF7L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Russ Smiley on January 21, 2009, 12:46:31 AM
Thank you, Jeff, for he suggestions.  I'm listening to samples of the Bernstein/NYPO M9 at Amazon right now: there are so many tracks that I feel as though I'm getting to hear nearly the whole thing.  The Ancerl looks intriguing, too.
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: mike bosworth on January 21, 2009, 02:42:48 AM
Besides Barenboim/Warner and Gielen/Saphir, what are some other M9s on a single disk?


Barbirolli and Haitink both fit on a single disk.

Mike Bosworth
Hanoi
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 21, 2009, 09:19:10 PM
Szell's live concert with CVLO (from the early 1969) is also pretty good on a single disc.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: john haueisen on January 25, 2009, 12:31:36 AM
I agree with John that the Barenboim is probably the best choice of those mentioned.
I know of several other M9 single discs, some off the beaten path.
Boulez: Chicago
Neumann: Leipzig Geandhaus
Masur: NYPhil
Lopez-Cobos: Cincinnati
and even a Bruno Walter with the VPO
Hey, all this variety keeps it interesting!
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 25, 2009, 02:27:03 AM
I agree with John that the Barenboim is probably the best choice of those mentioned.
I know of several other M9 single discs, some off the beaten path.
Boulez: Chicago
Neumann: Leipzig Geandhaus
Masur: NYPhil
Lopez-Cobos: Cincinnati
and even a Bruno Walter with the VPO
Hey, all this variety keeps it interesting!
John,

The Lopez-Cobos is not on a single disc. It can't fit into a sigle disc.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Russ Smiley on January 25, 2009, 02:46:55 AM
John,

I own the Barenboim and Lopez-Cobos recordings: the latter is a 'tidy' but well played performance (and on 2 discs).

Though I'm an amateur orchestral horn player, I think the Staatskapelle Berlin's horns sometimes are too prominent.  Same goes for other instruments at other points.  I attribute that to the level being adjusted 'on the fly'.  I'm listening to the the first movement right now, and a perfect example of the effect just appeared.  Between 6:40 and 6:50 (Rehearsal 7 in the score), the loudness and detail of the stopped horns changes markedly.  Maybe its just a matter of someone pointing more toward a mic, but I think not.  Similarly, the oboe's last, held note, marked pp in the score, just buries the harp and horns.  Effects like this irritate me.

Russ
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 25, 2009, 06:20:02 AM
John,

I own the Barenboim and Lopez-Cobos recordings: the latter is a 'tidy' but well played performance (and on 2 discs).

Though I'm an amateur orchestral horn player, I think the Staatskapelle Berlin's horns sometimes are too prominent.  Same goes for other instruments at other points.  I attribute that to the level being adjusted 'on the fly'.  I'm listening to the the first movement right now, and a perfect example of the effect just appeared.  Between 6:40 and 6:50 (Rehearsal 7 in the score), the loudness and detail of the stopped horns changes markedly.  Maybe its just a matter of someone pointing more toward a mic, but I think not.  Similarly, the oboe's last, held note, marked pp in the score, just buries the harp and horns.  Effects like this irritate me.

Russ
Russ,

I had already pointed out these issues with the Barenboim but thank you for brining them out.

The horns are not that loud most of time but at that particular spot they are unusually and mistakenly prominent. Also, the oboe at the end is simply outrageous. It is definitely a mistake that should have been corrected. But overall it's a superb recording.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Dave H on January 25, 2009, 06:00:36 PM
The two best single-disc Mahler 9ths are Ancerl and Masur. I don't think anyone else really comes close, including Barenboim.

Dave H
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Russ Smiley on January 25, 2009, 06:58:37 PM
Dave,

I don't know the Masur or Ancerl yet.

What is your opinion of the Gielen M9 on Saphir?  Though the timing of the Adagio nearly equals Boulez's, which I disliked, I found Gielen's very satisfactory.

Russ Smiley
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 25, 2009, 07:06:19 PM
Dave,

I don't know the Masur or Ancerl yet.

What is your opinion of the Gielen M9 on Saphir?  Though the timing of the Adagio nearly equals Boulez's, which I disliked, I found Gielen's very satisfactory.

Russ Smiley
Saphir?? Never heard of the label....but I know Gielen recorded it twice on for Interchord and the second for Hansseler. Neither one is my top favorite, but they aren't bad either. The latter one was praised by DH but I have issues with the sound and playing which goes occasionally too stiff (no to mention mistakes, e.g. second climax in I.). To me the best single disc M9ths are Svetlanov/het Residente Orkest, Kubelik/BRSO/DG, Barenboim/SB/Warner, and possibly the Ancerl.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Russ Smiley on January 25, 2009, 11:46:25 PM
Sorry, I didn't look closely enough.  Indeed, "Saphir by Intercord" appears on the cover.  Disc number is INT 830.881.  Recorded in April and August 1990.
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 26, 2009, 02:04:33 AM
How about Gunther Herbig/Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Saarbrucken/Berlin Classics M9th (on a single disc)?

It's pretty darn good, as good as his M6th.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 26, 2009, 05:15:47 PM
How about Gunther Herbig/Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Saarbrucken/Berlin Classics M9th (on a single disc)?

It's pretty darn good, as good as his M6th.

John,
It's strange that nobody has mentioned Herbig's recording for it is, IMO, a very fine and solid M9th. It has a sort of Haitink stamp all over it - thoughtfull and somber interpretation, a fine balance that emphasizes well blended sound over razor sharp details, good tempos and tempo relationships, and a beautiful recording quality. Note that Herbig does provide energy and passion such as in major climaxes in I. and his tempos in the middle movts are better, i.e., more leisurely in II. and faster in III. Timings are,

I. 27'22''
II. 16'57''
III. 12'11''
IV. 23'24''

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: Dave H on January 27, 2009, 01:21:56 AM
I find Gielen I (Intercord) to be woefully under-characterized and not terribly well played.

Dave H
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 27, 2009, 05:56:31 AM
I find Gielen I (Intercord) to be woefully under-characterized and not terribly well played.

Dave H
That's correct.

Gielen didn't seem to have a good grasp of the music when this recording was made. It's mostly stop-and-go type of conducting and the orchestra didn't respond well either. Even the great tam tam is omitted at the major climax of I. The middle movts fare better but cannot compensate for what has been compromised in the outer movts. The new recording is much better, but oddly enough it is hampered by shallow, two dimensional sound which tends to mitigate many details.  And yes, the tam tam is quite prominent this time.

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: wagnerlover on January 27, 2009, 03:05:34 PM
Has anyone heard Barshai/Moscow Radio Orchestra M9 (it's a single disc)?  Any opinions?

Thanks. db
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on January 27, 2009, 06:18:29 PM
Has anyone heard Barshai/Moscow Radio Orchestra M9 (it's a single disc)?  Any opinions?

Thanks. db
I'd say, "Nahhhhh..."

I.E., it's not very good :-\

John,
Title: Re: Single Disc M9s
Post by: John Kim on February 06, 2009, 04:19:18 PM
Let's not forget,

Neumann/CPO/Exton
Ashkenazy/CPO/Exton

the latter being one of the best played versions (along with Ozawa and Dohnanyi).

John,