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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: GL on March 16, 2017, 11:42:27 AM

Title: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 16, 2017, 11:42:27 AM
As far as I know today, 16 March 2017, this is the list of the conductors that recorded a complete cycle of Mahler's Symphonies:

Abbado (DG)

Abravanel (Vanguard)

Ashkenazi (label of the Sydney Orchestra)

Bernstein (1 for Sony, 1 for DG, 1, on DVD, for DG)

Bertini (EMI)

Boulez (DG)

Chailly (Decca)

Eschenbach (HD Videos available for free here: http://www.christoph-eschenbach.com/mahler/#movnav)

A. Fischer (Avi-Music; in progress, it will be completed in 2020)

Gergiev (LSO live)

Gielen (Haenssler Classics)

Haitink (Philips; despite all his Mahler recordings, since he did not make multiple recordings of M8, he has just released 1 official complete cycle only)

Inbal (1 for Denon; 1 for Exton)

Jansons (for different labels, but he recorded all the completed Symphonies, exception made for M10)

Kubelik (DG)

P. Jarvi (on DVD/Blu-ray for C Major)

Maazel (1 for Sony; 1 for Signum; 1, with the NYP, available for download; maybe one day the cycle with the BRSO will became officially available too)

Neumann (Supraphon)

Nott (Tudor)

Ozawa (Philips)

Pesek (label of the Czech National Orchestra)

Rattle (EMI)

Rinkevicius (label of the Lithuanian State Symphony Orchestra)

Segerstam (Chandos)

Sinopoli (DG)

Solti (Decca)

Stenz (Oehms Classics)

Svetlanov (currently Warner)

Tabakov (Capriccio)

Tennstedt (EMI)

Tilson Thomas (label of the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra)

Wakasugi (Fontec)

de Waart (RCA)

Zinman (RCA)
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: ChrisH on March 16, 2017, 01:23:44 PM
It's too bad that we won't be getting a complete Chailly/Leipzig cycle on Blu-Ray. Other than the 7th, I felt they were all highly competitive interpretations. Accentus was going to release the 1st, but I think that all fell apart when Chailly left.

Anyway great list. Is there any conductor you wished had recorded a cycle that did not? I always wanted a Dutoit/Montreal cycle.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: waderice on March 16, 2017, 01:32:32 PM
Anyway great list. Is there any conductor you wished had recorded a cycle that did not? I always wanted a Dutoit/Montreal cycle.

Two conductors that were one symphony short of a complete cycle were Horenstein (M2) and Scherchen (M4).  Three conductors that I would have liked to have seen complete cycles from were Rosbaud, Leinsdorf and Dorati.

Wade
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 16, 2017, 06:55:13 PM
It's too bad that we won't be getting a complete Chailly/Leipzig cycle on Blu-Ray. Other than the 7th, I felt they were all highly competitive interpretations. Accentus was going to release the 1st, but I think that all fell apart when Chailly left.

Anyway great list. Is there any conductor you wished had recorded a cycle that did not? I always wanted a Dutoit/Montreal cycle.

Among late conductors, I woud have been interested in listening to cycles by:

Webern (yep, that Webern), Zemlinsky, Mengelberg (with the Concertgebouw O), Van Beinum (with the Concertgebouw O), Rosbaud, Schuricht (when he was young), Klemperer (anyway, he did not care for M3 and M5, so he would not have recorded them even if he had had the possibility), Talich (with the Czech Philharmonic), Ancerl (with the Czech Philharmonic), Munch (with Boston SO), Ormandy (with Philadelphia O), Reiner (with Chicago SO), Karajan (with Berlin or Vienna O), K. Sanderling, Mackerras (with the Czech Philharmonic).

During the 50s, Bruno Walter was offered to record a complete cycle with the Wiener Symphoniker, but he declined.

Among living conductors, I would be interested in listening to cycles by:

Salonen (with the Los Angeles O), Nelsons (with the Boston SO), Nezet-Seguin (with the Philadelphia O), V. Petrenko, I. Fischer, Honeck (with the Pittsburgh SO), Previn, Kuchar (with a blasoned orchestra), Marc Albrecht, Shani, at least a woman among Falletta, Alsop and Gražinytė-Tyla.

Among the orchestras, I'd like a complete cycle by the Staatskapelle Dresden.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 16, 2017, 06:56:46 PM
Anyway great list. Is there any conductor you wished had recorded a cycle that did not? I always wanted a Dutoit/Montreal cycle.

Two conductors that were one symphony short of a complete cycle were Horenstein (M2) and Scherchen (M4).  Three conductors that I would have liked to have seen complete cycles from were Rosbaud, Leinsdorf and Dorati.

Wade

Close but not cigar cycles (as far as I remember):

Barbirolli (it lacks M8)

Horenstein (it lacks M2)

N. Jarvi (it lacks M9)

Kobayashi (it lacks M8)

Kondrashin (it lacks M2 & M8)

Kubelik Live/Audite (alas, it lacks M4)

Levine (it lacks M8, but a recording exists in the archives of Chicago and, according to Jed Distler, is good stuff)

Scherchen (it lacks M4 and M6 is disfigured by horrid cuts)
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: waderice on March 17, 2017, 02:02:24 PM
GL, there is an aircheck recording of M8 I have by Levine done in NY, though it is marred with a short cut partway through Part II of the symphony when the recordist had to turn his cassette tape over to enable completion of his recording of the aircheck.

Wade
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: James Meckley on March 18, 2017, 03:36:58 AM
GL, there is an aircheck recording of M8 I have by Levine done in NY, though it is marred with a short cut partway through Part II...

The Levine/NYPO M8 aircheck you mention is likely from a performance given during the 1976 Carnegie Hall Mahler Festival on October 9 of that year. There's a version available without the gap you describe, though the balances and overall sound quality leave something to be desired—especially in the louder spots—and it's effectiveness is further marred by a powerful yet unconvincing artificial organ.

There are also two Levine/Boston Symphony M8 airchecks in circulation, one done October 24, 2004 in Symphony Hall, and another done July 8, 2005 at Tanglewood. The sound on both of these recordings is quite acceptable.

James
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: AZContrabassoon on March 18, 2017, 03:31:57 PM
It's not too late folks, Levine is still alive - although I don't know what shape he's in. If only somehow he could get a real 8th and DLVDE.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on March 19, 2017, 06:49:25 AM
There was a pirate floating around of the M8 that he did at the start of his short tenure with the BSO. It sounds really good, too. The BSO ought to issue it on their own label, but I guess there's always a big hassle in getting permission from the singers, etc.

He also recorded a - to my ears - mediocre "DLvdE" in Berlin, with Siegried Jerusalem (eeeeeeh) and Jessye Norman. That sounds promising, but Norman sounded much better on her earlier recording with Colin Davis. Anyway, Levine's "DLvdE" was on DG - a total non-starter in my book.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 19, 2017, 07:37:57 PM
GL, there is an aircheck recording of M8 I have by Levine done in NY, though it is marred with a short cut partway through Part II of the symphony when the recordist had to turn his cassette tape over to enable completion of his recording of the aircheck.

Wade

As I have written somewhere else in this forum, the NYP M8/Levine was indeed broadcast on October, 9, 1976:

Place: Carnegie Hall
Carol Neblett, soprano
Teresa Zylis-Gara, soprano
Kathleen Battle, soprano
Lili Chookasian, contralto
Gwendolyn Killebrew, mezzo-soprano
Kenneth Riegel tenor
Michael Devlin, baritone
Donald McIntyre, baritone
Westminster Choir
Boys' Choir from the Little Chrch around the Corner
Trinity School Boys' ChoirùThe Brooklyn Boys' Chorus
New York Philharmonic
James Levine

(source: Booklet "Mahler in New York", p. 190. This booklet is part of the 12 CDs New Philharmonic set "The Mahler boradcast 1948-1982)

I read about the Chicago SO M8/Levine I mentioned above at the end of a review of Jed Distler:

"So, while this won’t do as a primary Mahler Second recording (for that you should pick from any of the reference recordings above), it’s fine enough for Levine fans to purchase and enjoy as they wait for some label to release his Mahler Eighth (the fabulous live performance with the Chicago Symphony would be ideal) to complete their collections."  (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16169/)

Distler speaks about it as if an official recording (made for a broadcast, I suppose) actually exists.

I suspect that the main problem in releasing a live M8 with Levine is related to get permissions from the legion of singers required, but I still find rather incredible that nobody is thinking about/working for releasing at least one of existing live recordings of Levine's M8.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on March 20, 2017, 07:27:58 AM
I'm afraid I have to part ways with DH on this topic. I don't think Levine's Helicon label M2 is worth 8 out of 10 stars. I think the live Salzburg Festival one on Orfeo is better.

Was there a Levine/CSO M8 from Orchestra Hall? I remember hearing a radio broadcast of an M8 that he did at Rivinia, and it just didn't sound very good (as most outdoor M8's seldom ever do). I remember there being almost no organ and the balances were - of course - all messed up.

I frankly think this is a total non-issue. Levine will never get his health back to a point where he can perform regularly. I really feel that his RCA Mahler is, on the whole, rather overrated. The CSO M3 and M4 are quite good. The CSO M7 isn't bad either, although the dynamic range is a bit exaggerated, due to it having been recorded on the very 'open' sounding Soundstream deck. The Philly items are very well played, but not terribly well recorded. Worse yet, Levine's M10 is a total loser (save the first movement). I feel this cycle is a bit dated now.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 20, 2017, 10:54:01 AM
I think that Jed Distler is referring to this performance:

Gustav Mahler / Symphony no. 8. Part 1, Hymnus: Veni, Creator spiritus

Carol Neblett, Judith Blegen, Jann Jaffe, sopranos ; Isola Jones, Birgit Finnilae [i.e. Finnilä], contraltos ; Kenneth Riegel, tenor ; Ryan Edwards, baritone ; John Cheek, bass ; Glen Ellyn Children's Chorus ; Chicago Symphony Chorus; James Levine (22:36).

(check disc 5 of the collection "Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the first 100 years": https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/728542)

I do not know where it was recorded. Ravinia is not mentioned in the following list (which I do not know if it is accurate):

"Recorded from live performances, radio and television broadcasts, May 1, 1916, to June 30, 1989, in New York, N.Y., Chicago, Ill., Hamilton, Ontario and Evanston, Ill."

Anyway, if according to Distler's ears it is a fabulous performance, I am inclined to believe him.

About the Levine cycle, I concur with the reviews one can read on arkivmusic:

"As a Mahler interpreter, his performances are exciting, fabulously played, razor-sharp rhythmically, and sensitive to the myriad details of Mahler's scoring. He has terrific vocal soloists--Judith Blegen in the Fourth and Marilyn Horne in the Third--but seems not to like cowbells very much in the Sixth and Seventh. Perhaps the two standout performances are the Fifth and Ninth, as much for the playing of the Philadelphia Orchestra as for Levine's intense interpretations."

(for the full reviews: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=565592)

And so I think Levine's Mahler belongs to every serious collection.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on March 20, 2017, 08:28:17 PM
"I think Levine's Mahler belongs to every serious collection"

I would say more the underrated Inbal and Bertini cycles from the 1980's, but that - of course - is merely an opinion.

Thanks for informing me on the M8/I that Distler is referring to.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 20, 2017, 10:49:34 PM
In my opinion, a serious collection of complete cycles (box-sets) and Lieder should contain (in alphabetical order):

"MANDATORY" (= that must be known, the essentials):

SYMPHONIES:

Bertini (EMI)

Bernstein 1 (Sony, the last Japanese remastering) and Bernstein 2 (DG)

or

Bernstein 1 (Sony, the last Japanese remastering) and M1, M5, M6 of Bernstein 2 (DG)

Chailly (Decca)

Gielen (Haenssler Classics)

Levine's (Sony), Kubelik live (Audite) and Klemperer's are not complete, but they should stay in the above mentioned company. Among other cycles not yet complete, Ivan Fischer's and Manfred Honeck's should be too, even if they will not be completed.

M10 (Cooke):

Chailly (Decca)

Gielen (Haenssler Classics)

Rattle 1 (EMI)

Sanderling (Berlin Classics)

LIEDER:

Gesellen-Lieder, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckert-Lieder & Lieder von der Jugendzeit:

Janet Baker (mezzo-soprano) (EMI & Hyperion)

Kindertotenlieder & Rueckert-Lieder:

Christa Ludwig (EMI or DG)

Wunderhornlieder:

Bernstein 1 (Sony)

Chailly (Decca)

Stenz (Ohems)

Das Lied von der Erde (with contralto):

Klemperer (EMI)

Kubelik (Audite)

Haitink (Philips)

(yes, I like Janet Baker very much)

Das Lied von der Erde (with bariton):

Kletzki (EMI)

Das Klagende Lied (definitive version):

Haitink (Philips)

Das Klagende Lied (Waldmaerchen + definitive version):

Chailly (decca)

Tilson-Thomas (label of the SFSO)

Das Klagende Lied (1880 version):

Akiyama (Exton)

Nagano (Warner, not well recorded as the Akiyama's)

"OPTIONAL" (= that are worth to be known, and could expand the horizons of a collection):

SYMPHONIES:

Inbal 1 (Denon; not as Inbal 1, which it was my first complete cycle and which I own with every disc signed by the maestro himself, but I enjoyed Inbal 2 too)

Neumann (Supraphon)

Ozawa (Philips)

Segerstam (Chandos - discontinued)

Tennstedt (EMI)

Tilson-Thomas (label of the SFSO) and Zinman (RCA) could be part of the list of the "optionals". Among not complete cycles, Kondrashin (Melodya) is rather impressive.

Das Lied von der Erde:

Nezet-Seguin (London Philharmonic Orchestra label)

Eiji Oue (Reference Recordings)

M10 (Cooke)

Dausgaard (Seattle Symphony Media)

Rattle 2 (EMI)

Das Klagende Lied (Waldmaerchen + definitive version):

Rattle (EMI)

Sinopoli (DG)

LIEDER:

Wunderhornlieder, Gesellen-Lieder, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckert-Lieder:

Boulez (DG)

Rueckert-Lieder:

Sasha Cooke (mezzo-soprano) (Yarlung Records)

NOTE: I don't know the Wakasugi cycle. I know only the M6 of the Rinkevicius. The Pesek cycle I will know soon.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on March 21, 2017, 12:48:44 AM
OK, fair enough   8)
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 21, 2017, 09:46:06 AM
In my opinion, a serious collection of complete cycles (box-sets) and Lieder should contain (in alphabetical order):

"MANDATORY" (= that must be known, the essentials):

SYMPHONIES:

Bertini (EMI)

Bernstein 1 (Sony, the last Japanese remastering) and Bernstein 2 (DG)

or

Bernstein 1 (Sony, the last Japanese remastering) and M1, M5, M6 of Bernstein 2 (DG)

Chailly (Decca)

Gielen (Haenssler Classics)

Levine's (Sony), Kubelik live (Audite) and Klemperer's are not complete, but they should stay in the above mentioned company. Among other cycles not yet complete, Ivan Fischer's and Manfred Honeck's should be too, even if they will not be completed.

M10 (Cooke):

Chailly (Decca)

Gielen (Haenssler Classics)

Rattle 1 (EMI)

Sanderling (Berlin Classics)

LIEDER:

Gesellen-Lieder, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckert-Lieder & Lieder von der Jugendzeit:

Janet Baker (mezzo-soprano) (EMI & Hyperion)

Wunderhornlieder:

Bernstein 1 (Sony)

Chailly (Decca)

Stenz (Ohems)

Das Lied von der Erde (with contralto):

Klemperer (EMI)

Kubelik (Audite)

Haitink (Philips)

(yes, I like Janet Baker very much)

Das Lied von der Erde (with bariton):

Kletzki (EMI)

Das Klagende Lied (definitive version):

Haitink (Philips)

Das Klagende Lied (Waldmaerchen + definitive version):

Chailly (decca)

Tilson-Thomas (label of the SFSO)

Das Klagende Lied (1880 version):

Akiyama (Exton)

Nagano (Warner, not well recorded as the Akiyama's)

"OPTIONAL" (= that are worth to be known, and could expand the horizons of a collection):

SYMPHONIES:

Inbal 1 (Denon; not as Inbal 1, which it was my first complete cycle and which I own with every disc signed by the maestro himself, but I enjoyed Inbal 2 too)

Neumann (Supraphon)

Ozawa (Philips)

Segerstam (Chandos - discontinued)

Tennstedt (EMI)

Tilson-Thomas (label of the SFSO) and Zinman (RCA) could be part of the list of the "optionals". Among not complete cycles, Kondrashin (Melodya) is rather impressive.

Das Lied von der Erde:

Nezet-Seguin (London Philharmonic Orchestra label)

Eiji Oue (Reference Recordings)

M10 (Cooke)

Dausgaard (Seattle Symphony Media)

Rattle 2 (EMI)

Das Klagende Lied (Waldmaerchen + definitive version):

Rattle (EMI)

Sinopoli (DG)

LIEDER:

Wunderhornlieder, Gesellen-Lieder, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckert-Lieder:

Boulez (DG)

Rueckert-Lieder:

Sasha Cooke (mezzo-soprano) (Yarlung Records)

NOTE: I don't know the Wakasugi cycle. I know only the M6 of the Rinkevicius. The Pesek cycle I will know soon.

Sorry, I forgot the Piano Quartet:

Members of the Prazak Quartet & Sachiko Kayahara (Praga Digitals)

Daniel Hope & Friends (DG)
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: AZContrabassoon on March 21, 2017, 03:13:35 PM
A list of MANDATORY recordings that doesn't include a single one of Bruno Walter's contributions? But does include Klemperer? Walter knew and worked with Mahler a lot longer than Klemperer ever did and we can hope that Walter absorbed some of Mahler's ideas and personality. We'll never know. Every time I listen to the fifth in old, crackly mono from NY I am pleasantly surprised just how thrilling, driven and "modern" that recording sounds. It's really rather interesting comparing Walter & Klemperer in recordings of the 2nd, 9th, and DLVDE - so different yet both so vital.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 21, 2017, 04:01:27 PM
A list of MANDATORY recordings that doesn't include a single one of Bruno Walter's contributions? But does include Klemperer? Walter knew and worked with Mahler a lot longer than Klemperer ever did and we can hope that Walter absorbed some of Mahler's ideas and personality. We'll never know. Every time I listen to the fifth in old, crackly mono from NY I am pleasantly surprised just how thrilling, driven and "modern" that recording sounds. It's really rather interesting comparing Walter & Klemperer in recordings of the 2nd, 9th, and DLVDE - so different yet both so vital.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. As I specified before jotting it down, I considered complete and almost comple cycles of symphonies. I added Das Klagende Lied, Das Lied von der Erde, the Cooke's M10 and Lieder separately because they are too often (and I thik wrongly) not included in the boxes of the cycles (despite being so varied, Mahler's opera omnia is very consistent, compact and organic) and they should really be known alongiside the symphonies.

In a list of single, important releases, Walter would pop out for sure, as would Karajan and many others.

As for the fact that Walter's Mahler must be more reliable than Klemperer's because of the many years spent by him as Mahler's assistent, friend and confident, we can't be entirely sure. Walter conducted only one of Mahler Symphonies (the Third), during Mahler's lifetime and it did it after Mahler had left Vienna. So, we do not know what Mahler thought of Walter's Mahler. According to contemporary witnesses that had attended Mahler's and Walter's concert, they differed in style and approach, Walter being milder, less provocative, less extreme. On the other hand, Berlin critics during the 20s, considered Klemperer the true heir of Mahler, he reminded them of the same approach to conducting of Mahler. Moreover, especially during the 30s, the conservative Walter had tried to impose Mahler's music as the official music of the new, postwar Austria, that is to say the music in which the new nation could identify itself, the music in which it was mirrored the nation's image of the glorious past and its authoritathive legacy brought in the present. The present of the Austria in the 30s was the catholic, right-wing government of Schussnig, a friend of Walter, who was present in his official capacity at the concert for the 25th anniversary of Mahler death. So, Walter tried to make sound Mahler's music less disruptive, more conservative.

Let's not forget he was a prominent public figure: the Nazi wanted to put him away and he saved his neck because he was in Amsterdam during the Anschluss.

Consider also his attitude towards Mahler's symphonies: he never conducted the Sixth, the Seventh he conducted once. He performed regularly Das Lied and the Ninth above all for a sense of duty, because they had been entrusted to him, Das Lied in particular. After he fled Austria, apart from the first recording of the Fifth (which I like), he conducted above all M1, M2 & many M4s and refused the offer to record an entire cycle. Conductors, let's say, more "progressive" (like Mitropoulos) had no problems in conducting M3, 5, 6, 7, that is to say the more modernistic symphonies.

Another example of unreliability of assumptions about master-disciple relationship is represented by Oscar Fried. He was the first to record the Second Symphony at the beginning of the 20s. The first time he conducted it, he went to Vienna to study it at the piano with Mahler. Mahler was pleased. In Berlin at the dress rehearsal, Mahler was however very surprised by the fact that Fried seemed to have forgotten all that was said. In fact, he did the opposite! Mahler protested and Fried had to sort of improvise a new approach during the actual concert (the same concert in which Klemperer was conducting the offstage orchestra and made his first encounter with Mahler). Now, how can we be sure that the M2 he recorded in the 20s is a M2 that Mahler would approve?

Let's think about the example of Klemperer once more. As mentioned above, during Klemperer's most successful years in Germany, people who attended concerts of both Mahler and Klemperer considered Klemperer the true heir of Mahler. We also know that, in Prague, Klemperer attended all the rehearsal of Mahler's Seventh Symphony. He witnessed Mahler's work with the orchestra, his labours in revising and polishing the score, he even sat at the same table for dinner every night, listening to all he had to say about music and many other things. It's then fair to assume that he knew very well the Seventh and what Mahler wanted to achieve in performing that symphony. Sixty years after, Klemperer recorded the Seventh. It is a performance more than a bit strange, nevertheless once in while I like to listen to it because it fascinates me, but, that said, just considering Klemperer's tempos, we can be sure this is not how Mahler conducted it.

It is simply not in the nature of great artists with strong personalities like Walter and Klemperer just to reproduce the work of their mentor, they must have it done their own way and we have to judge their work above all for what it is, for its own merits, for what they want and have to say for themselves, not just for the kind of human relationship they enjoyed with Mahler.

(Sorry for the length of the post.)
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on March 22, 2017, 05:51:45 PM
I certainly concur with your last paragraph. I think it's doubtful that Mengelberg's recording of M4 is a duplicate of Mahler's own Amsterdam performance(s), no matter how many marks he may have made into the score.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 23, 2017, 10:19:25 AM
I certainly concur with your last paragraph. I think it's doubtful that Mengelberg's recording of M4 is a duplicate of Mahler's own Amsterdam performance(s), no matter how many marks he may have made into the score.

You can read minds. It occured to me that I had forgotten addressing the case of Mengelberg and when I came back to add a few lines about him, I found you had just did it for me. It remains to say that his scores are also the source of stories (like the one related to the Adagietto) that he likely made up.

While I regret that we lack more recordings by Walter, Klemperer, Mengelberg and the other guys in Mahler's band, on the other hand I admire them for their honesty, for sticking on their principles. I mean, Walter did not share the nihilistic vision of the Sixth and he stayed away from it; Klemperer for two times decided to conduct the Sixth and for two times he removed it from the program because he was tortured about the Finale: he kept wondering if that movement was a failure or if it was he that was not able to understand and master it. So, I regret not having an apocalyptic M6 from Klemperer, but I prefer his attitude to the one of today conductors that think they can conduct everything, as if it were just a mechanical/technical matter.

Apropos of Mengelberg. I thought that he recorded only M4, M5, IV and the Gesellen-Lieder, but I read somewhere that, during his Swiss exile (1945-1951), he recorded also M5, I. It would have been much more interesting if he had recorded all the First Part of M5, but I am nevertheless intrigued. Alas, I have not been able to locate that recording, it is as if it never existed. Does someone know something about it?
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: waderice on March 23, 2017, 12:57:15 PM
Apropos of Mengelberg. I thought that he recorded only M4, M5, IV and the Gesellen-Lieder, but I read somewhere that, during his Swiss exile (1945-1951), he recorded also M5, I. It would have been much more interesting if he had recorded all the First Part of M5, but I am nevertheless intrigued. Alas, I have not been able to locate that recording, it is as if it never existed. Does someone know something about it?

If you don't get an answer here, try going over to the Mahler Group at Facebook, if you're on FB, and ask this question.  I'm pretty sure there are many more people there who can hopefully provide you with an answer.

Wade
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Freddy van Maurik on March 23, 2017, 03:51:54 PM
Apropos of Mengelberg. I thought that he recorded only M4, M5, IV and the Gesellen-Lieder, but I read somewhere that, during his Swiss exile (1945-1951), he recorded also M5, I. It would have been much more interesting if he had recorded all the First Part of M5, but I am nevertheless intrigued. Alas, I have not been able to locate that recording, it is as if it never existed. Does someone know something about it?

If you don't get an answer here, try going over to the Mahler Group at Facebook, if you're on FB, and ask this question.  I'm pretty sure there are many more people there who can hopefully provide you with an answer.

Wade

You might try and contact Frits Zwart, Mengelberg's biographer. If the recording exists, he will know of it. I've never heard of it, though.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on March 24, 2017, 11:28:20 AM
Thank you for the replies & suggestions. Having remembered the orchestra he conducted for his last recordings made in Switzerland, through google I was able to find the details of the release, but not any trace of it in any shop:

WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART - Piano Concerto No. 23

FRANZ LISZT - Piano Concerto No. 1

FREDERIC CHOPIN - Piano Concerto No. 1 (first movement)

GUSTAV MAHLER - Symphony No. 5 (first movement)

FELIX MENDELSSOHN - A Midsummer Night's Dream Overture

ANTON BRUCKNER - Symphony No. 7 (Adagio)

L'Orchestre du Vacherin Mont d'Or
Willem Mengelberg

Tahra
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Freddy van Maurik on April 04, 2017, 07:10:11 AM
Thank you for the replies & suggestions. Having remembered the orchestra he conducted for his last recordings made in Switzerland, through google I was able to find the details of the release, but not any trace of it in any shop:

WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART - Piano Concerto No. 23

FRANZ LISZT - Piano Concerto No. 1

FREDERIC CHOPIN - Piano Concerto No. 1 (first movement)

GUSTAV MAHLER - Symphony No. 5 (first movement)

FELIX MENDELSSOHN - A Midsummer Night's Dream Overture

ANTON BRUCKNER - Symphony No. 7 (Adagio)

L'Orchestre du Vacherin Mont d'Or
Willem Mengelberg

Tahra

Hi GL,

I contacted Frits Zwart (he and I are members of the board of the Dutch Gustav Mahler Society) and he pointed out that recordings of these works by Mengelberg only partly exist. There is no Bruckner-recording by Mengelberg. A complete list of Mengelberg's recordings can be found here: http://www.willemmengelberg.nl/?q=discografie

Furthermore, the name of the orchestra is very probably not real. Vacherin Mont d'Or is a kind of Swiss cheese... The ClassicsToday-article by David Hurwitz, in which this orchestra is mentioned uses a picture of this Tahra-issue:

"Mengelberg -- Previously Unissued Historic Recordings"
BEETHOVEN:  Symphony No. 3 in E Flat, Op. 55 Eroica (Mar. 5, 1942?).  Symphony No. 2 in D, Op. 36 (Mar. 21, 1943).  Symphony No. 8 in F, Op. 93 (May 13, 1943).  BRAHMS:  Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 68 (April 13, 1943).
Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orch/Willem Mengelberg, cond.
TAHRA TAH 391-393 (3 CDs) (F) (ADD) TT: 49:28 / 67:16 / 47:23

From Mahler 5th, he only recorded the Adagietto, as you undoubtedly know.

Cheers!
Freddy
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: GL on April 04, 2017, 06:44:21 PM
Hi GL,

I contacted Frits Zwart (he and I are members of the board of the Dutch Gustav Mahler Society) and he pointed out that recordings of these works by Mengelberg only partly exist. There is no Bruckner-recording by Mengelberg. A complete list of Mengelberg's recordings can be found here: http://www.willemmengelberg.nl/?q=discografie

Furthermore, the name of the orchestra is very probably not real. Vacherin Mont d'Or is a kind of Swiss cheese... The ClassicsToday-article by David Hurwitz, in which this orchestra is mentioned uses a picture of this Tahra-issue:

"Mengelberg -- Previously Unissued Historic Recordings"
BEETHOVEN:  Symphony No. 3 in E Flat, Op. 55 Eroica (Mar. 5, 1942?).  Symphony No. 2 in D, Op. 36 (Mar. 21, 1943).  Symphony No. 8 in F, Op. 93 (May 13, 1943).  BRAHMS:  Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 68 (April 13, 1943).
Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orch/Willem Mengelberg, cond.
TAHRA TAH 391-393 (3 CDs) (F) (ADD) TT: 49:28 / 67:16 / 47:23

From Mahler 5th, he only recorded the Adagietto, as you undoubtedly know.

Cheers!
Freddy
[/quote]

It looks like I have slipped upon a piece of cheese... Anyway, thank you so much Freddy for contacting Frits Zwart and for the interesting & informative post!

It's always a pleasure to deal with people around here.
Luca
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Freddy van Maurik on December 29, 2019, 10:17:51 AM
In my opinion, a serious collection of complete cycles (box-sets) and Lieder should contain (in alphabetical order):
[...]

Hi all,

I just rediscovered this topic and am happy to say that my collection includes all but two of these mentioned by GL: the Segerstam-cycle and the Rückert-Lieder by ms. Cooke (whom I don't know of at all, to be honest). Should I try and get hold of these?  ;)

Cheers!
Freddy
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: David Boxwell on January 11, 2020, 10:12:45 PM
Also close, if he'd lived another 5-10 years: Mitropoulos (no 2, no 4, no 7).
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: erikwilson7 on January 15, 2020, 06:46:45 PM
In my opinion, a serious collection of complete cycles (box-sets) and Lieder should contain (in alphabetical order):
[...]

Hi all,

I just rediscovered this topic and am happy to say that my collection includes all but two of these mentioned by GL: the Segerstam-cycle and the Rückert-Lieder by ms. Cooke (whom I don't know of at all, to be honest). Should I try and get hold of these?  ;)

Cheers!
Freddy

Hi Freddy,

I’m only familiar with part of the Segerstam cycle (2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10 adagio) and I can tell you it’s good, but a bit extreme. They all have a very mystical and olympian quality to them. The M2 is titanic and expansive and has one of the best endings on disc. The M3 is good not great, IMO. The M7 is 88 minutes but is intelligently conducted and played incredibly well. The M8 is also long, and has a unique final peroration. The M9 is one of the longest on disc(s) as well, but finely executed. The M10 adagio is just under 30 minutes. All of what I mentioned can be listened to on Spotify except for the M2. The set is quite difficult to find now, and pretty expensive as a whole.

Erik
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Last_Evolution on January 23, 2020, 08:12:56 AM
All symphonies by Orchestre National de Lille, Alexandre Bloch on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ONLille/videos
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Last_Evolution on February 11, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Macal/CPO is almost complete (except M8).
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Last_Evolution on February 13, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Complete cycle by finnish rso:
https://areena.yle.fi/1-50146873
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: Last_Evolution on February 18, 2020, 06:56:45 AM
Complete cycle by Orquesta Sinfonica de Mineria.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Orquesta+Sinfonica+de+Mineria+mahler&i=digital-music&ref=nb_sb_noss

Did anyone try this one?
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: vvrinc on July 14, 2021, 03:06:58 AM
Very curious about Hiroshi Wakasugi's cycle with NHK. Please allow me the following:
1. Has anyone here heard it? Any opinions?
2. Owns it?  Where did you purchase it?

My only contact with his recordings are the complete Bruckner with NHK and the two he did with Saarbrücken, and some Takemitsu.

Thank you for your consideration.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: barryguerrero on July 14, 2021, 07:58:45 AM
I think you're best source for looking into Wakasugi Mahler is HMV Japan. It's clearly not readily available, at least not in the west. I've heard some of his. I thought it was good, but not particularly exceptional. In Mahler I'm more impressed with Ken-Ichiro Kobayashi, who recorded on both Canyon Classics and Exton (I believe they may have been the same company).
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: John Kim on July 14, 2021, 07:27:36 PM
Ken Ichiro Kobayashi DID M8 in Japan and recorded it for Exton. I think it is on Spotify or somewhere.

As for Pesek's Mahler cycle I am not aware of it. He did a couple of Mahler, e.g., M4, M9, but not the entire cycle as far as I can recall.

John
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: James Meckley on July 15, 2021, 02:07:35 AM
[Pesek] did a couple of Mahler, e.g., M4, M9, but not the entire cycle as far as I can recall.

There's a complete Mahler cycle (1–9 and 10 Adagio) from Pesek with the Czech National Symphony Orchestra on Japanese Victor. He also did 1 and 9 with the Royal Philharmonic on Virgin Classics.
Title: Re: A List of Mahler's Complete Cycles (updated on March 16, 2017)
Post by: vvrinc on July 17, 2021, 01:49:05 AM
I found the Pesek on the Czech Philharmonic store. About $90-something plus shipping.

Couldn’t find Wakasugi’s cycle on Japanese sites but it’s quite present on EBay (about $200.)