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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: ChrisH on January 28, 2021, 02:13:33 PM
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I was trolling through Amazon the other day and came across this little box-set of Micheal Gielen performing 2 M6's. One from 1971, and the other from 2013. The reason for the purchase, outside of being a Gielen fan, is the 2013 interpretation. It's basically 95 MINUTES LONG! That's an obscene timing. It's about 20 minutes longer than the '71, and 8-9 minutes longer than the 6th found in the Gielen box-set. Call me curious.
My first thought, before even putting this on, was that it would be something like Klemps M7, glacial, and entirely too broad. Having a feeling of just putting it down on record while being near the end of life. It sounds tired. However, this M6 is an entirely different beast, at least to me.
What Gielen does here is an exercise in concentration, both by Gielen and the orchestra, and showing us 40+ years of experience with the score. I know, I know, you say that this can't work, it's an ABOMINATION! IT IS! But, it is enthralling from the opening march. I don't know if I've encountered a more thought out performance. The tempo relationships are masterful, the dynamics and the balances between the instrument groups are outstanding. At the tempo he takes this work, everything matters. It's all laid bare, and Gielen gives us every little thing in a very organic way.
The tension throughout the entire performance never flags. Each tick up or down in the tempo brings more. He does something very similar with his dynamics, small little changes here and there upping the ante. This builds through the entire work, finally releasing in the finale. This is not to say that he doesn't hit the climaxes in the earlier movements, more that he is judging them against the final payoff. The entire performance is masterful.
The SWR Baden-Baden plays the pants of this work. Their commitment to Gielen's vision is wholly evident on this disc, they truly played for the man. Though, I'd be curious to know what the orchestras thoughts where after the first rehearsal.
Finally, this recording is a left fielder. Will it take the place of my current favorites? No, but it will hold a special slot on my shelf.
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Thanks for posting about this. I listened to parts of it on Spotify back when it was released, but after reading your review I was compelled to revisit it because I'd since grown an admiration for Gielen's Mahler.
Wow, this is the darkest-as-death, heaviest Mahler 6 I've ever heard. And you're right: it's not just slow for the sake of being slow. It's slow and wuchtig (heavy), and dark as hell. This recording brings out those characteristics of this music better than I've ever heard, even more than Bernstein did with the VPO (a recording I don't personally care for). In all respects, it's like the polar opposite of I. Fischer's Budapest recording which is softer, lyrical, and a bit quicker and lightweight overall.
Amazing sound quality too, even on Spotify. And the brass sounds incredible. I'll probably end up buying this now. It's the ultimate apocalyptic Mahler Sixth.
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I'm sure this is very good! After all, it was a Salzburg audience they were playing for. For the type of M6 performance you're describing, I'm satisfied with the Barbirolli EMI one which is included in my copy of EMI's 16 disc, "Mahler - The Complete Works" box set.
I'm more curious to know what you thought of the OTHER M6 performance in your Gielen set . . . the faster one?
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I have both recordings and love them both!
The 2013 version is really slow but I never feel the tempo dragging because Gielen and his orchestra concentrate so intensely and sharply from start to finish.
John
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Sorry guys, I just can't hang. I checked this out at Spotify. A 28 minutes opening movement? . . . A 16 minute scherzo? . . . A finale that lasts for nearly 38 minutes! . . No thanks. I don't care how much concentration there is. I don't if Gielen was studying for the BAR exam, this just isn't for me. I refuse to be a card carrying member of the 'slower is better' fan club. If they issued the faster performance on to an inexpensive single disc, I may get interested in that.
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Looking at Amazon, I see now that the applause took the last two minutes of the finale, so it's not so terrible. Still, . . .
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I don’t think slower is better. I don’t think Gielen does either. He takes a normal 15:47 for the Andante. To me, Gielen finds a purpose in having some of the music be slow and extremely heavy/dark.
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Fair enough. I still won't partake, because I have too many M6 recordings now and I'm waiting for an eventual Adam Fischer/Dusseldorf one (I love their M9).
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Oh, me too. For sure. Overall I prefer a quicker M6. My ideal timings would be like something around 23:00, 12:30, 15:00, 29:00 = 79:30
I’m just appreciating this artistic interpretation.
Very much looking forward to the À. Fischer M2 and M6. I have a feeling those will both be single disc. Fischer said he wouldn’t record M10/I because it would be pointless to put on disc alone (he also said he wouldn’t record a full M10). That makes me think he is being conscious of disc cost for the record label. In other words, if he can do a single disc M2 and M6, he’ll do it. The only one on multiple discs so far has been the M3, because it must be.
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One thing I like about the Barbirolli M6, is that he leaves out the expo. repeat. If you're going to do the first movement at a very slow tempo, then leave it out. That's my preference.
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Agreed, and that’s the one thing I don’t like about Levi’s. Fast and no repeat comes out to a 17-minute first movement. Otherwise it’s a fantastic recording. It makes it unique, at least!
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I'll spin this from time to time, that's for sure. Generally, I too prefer swifter tempos. Who doesn't like what Kondrashin does with this work. To me, I think its cool that Gielen tried to do something so different than the norm. Jarvi recorded an insanely fast M7, and while it's surely not a top tier choice, it does give some very interesting perspective into the work. It's a night time run, with monsters chasing you instead of a nice moonlit stroll through garden.
The variety of interpretation is one of the things I enjoy most about collecting all of these recordings.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself
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Vehemence
I couldn't agree more.
John
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Then I'll be the A-hole and disagree with all of you. Anybody can go fast all the way through a performance, and anybody can go slooow all the way through a performance. ANYBODY. It doesn't matter if they have the concentration of Einstein. It takes zero intelligence to take a 90 minute symphony at a one, sort of basic level of tempo; slow or fast. I'm not knocking Gielen. I'm saying two things. A). I don't need it because slow performances don't appeal to me and I already have the Barbirolli, and B). If you're going to do the first movement really sloooow, then don't take the expo repeat! Personally, I think it's dumb to take the contrasting "Alma" passage at a slow tempo. That's just me. There - I couldn't have said it better myself.
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I personally think the exposition repeat is significant to the structure of the symphony. It’s the only one in any of Mahler’s works beyond M1.
I understand skipping it for conductors’ artistic reasons (like the Barbirolli), but I think skipping that repeat is always a risk and it doesn’t often pay off (again, it does for Barbirolli).
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TWO things I can't stand when it comes to M6th:
1) No exposition repeat in I.
2) A-S order
John
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My point about the 2013 Gielen M6th is this:
I am not going to return to it everyday or even weekly or monthly. For that I already have Bernstein, Levi, Tennstedt, to name a few. But it's a performance that's worth a visit from time to time, especially when my mood is right for it. It's not dull or bland musically and I am glad Gielen left such a performance.
John
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Good point. Like the Klemperer M7, I’m just glad it exists for my listening pleasure when I’m in that specific mood.
John, why do you like the Levi M6 if there’s no exposition repeat? Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a fantastic recording otherwise.
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I hate all of you and I'm going to give it a one star rating at Amazon! ;) . . . What I do wish THEY would reissue, are the early BBC Mahler performances conducted by Boulez. Now THERE'S an interesting Mahler 6. Boulez took the first movement at a slower than normal gait - just like on his VPO M6 (and without dragging the "Alma" theme passage) - but did the remaining three movements on the fast side. It really worked. Boulez came up with very interesting performances in his first go around, without betraying his Darmstadt/Donaueschingen/Ojai roots. In other words, Bruno Maderna, Hans Rosbaud and M. Gielan, would all probably have approved.
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I STILL haven’t heard any of Boulez’s live Mahler, but I hear it’s usually better than the studio ones (which are already mostly good). I want to watch that lauded M2.
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His earlier BBC Mahler recordings all got issued on expensive Italian 'pirates'. The sound wasn't great on any of them. The M8 was pretty cool and I think it was recorded in Royal Albert Hall (huge organ on the recording). However, the tenor was in bad voice, and his voice actually gives out on one of his big Part II solos! There were two different M9's. One of those M9's had a Gilulini like, 32 minute first movement that worked quite well. No M3, M4 or M7. I remember the M5 being really good. The N.Y. Phil. Mahler box has a Boulez M3, but I think those have all dried up - hard to find now. Frankly, it wasn't as good as the Vienna one.
The DVD of M2 is good, but certainly no better than the Chailly/Leipzig one, or the A. Nelsons/V.P.O./Salzburg Festival one. I have all three of those.
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The Chailly / Leipzig M2 is my favorite recording of the work. If it were issued to audio it would easily replace his RCO account for me.
I’ve been on a Chailly Mahler kick lately and I’m still holding out for an eventual Das Lied. Its just gotta happen! How could he record every single other work by Mahler and not that one? It will probably be with Lucerne if it ever happens since Chailly is “retired.”
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It's strange that Decca didn't issue a Chailly "DLvdE". He did perform it - Jard van Ness was the mezzo. They took it on tour and I saw it in S.F. The performance was fantastic, but it came at a time when I was greatly distracted by an incident that had recently happened. I do have a pirate of Chailly doing it with van Ness. Here's the funny thing: Jard van Ness was performing on Van Ness St. - the street that Davies Hall is on.
The Chailly/Amsterdam/Decca cycle is really very good. Like any cycle, some are better than others. I like the M1, M4, M5, M6 and M9 quite a bit. M3 is pretty darn good to. They're all at least good - none are bad. The M2 might be the weakest (but not so with the Leipzig one!).
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As far as full cycles go, Chailly's has got to be one of the most consistent along with Bertini and de Waart. You're right, the M2 is not great, but it's at least still good. The M7 is weird, but I admire it. The M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M9, and M10 are among my favorite recordings of those works.
Strangely, it seems no one really talks about the Chailly Decca cycle anymore.
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. . . only because there's soooo much Mahler now. Also, I think there are those, myself included, who would have liked for him to have finished his Leipzig video cycle.
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Having the Chailly / Leipzig cycle in a box that includes the Blu-Rays and CD versions would be an absolute dream cycle.
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. . . wouldn't hurt!
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I find it odd that you never see Chailly as a guest conductor anywhere. He didn't seem to do too much of that anywhere he was MD. Now, it's like all you hear about him is at the Lucerne Festival, and his post at La Scala. Other than that, nothing. it's strange, he's a damn fine conductor and he had a lot of success wherever he's been.
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If I'm not mistaken, I think he's very much a family guy and likes to stay close to home. Therefore, I think you'll find him conducting in Italy more these days. He just came out with a Respighi disc on Decca with the Filarmonica della Scala (Milan). Of course Covid has changed everything, and will continue to do so.