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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: John Kim on February 21, 2021, 08:29:46 PM

Title: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: John Kim on February 21, 2021, 08:29:46 PM
BPO replied to my inquiry about the possibility of releasing the recordings in their Mahler cycle individually:

"The works contained in the boxed set will be made available gradually over the next few months. Best wishes, Daniel"

John
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 21, 2021, 09:19:56 PM
That’s fantastic news! I just don’t want to wait... ha
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: John Kim on February 21, 2021, 09:31:17 PM
I asked them to release,

Harding M10th (Cooke)
Viotti M3rd
Rattle M9th (2011)
Rattle Bruckner 8th

too.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 21, 2021, 09:34:47 PM
I love that Viotti M3. Such a random hit for me. I’m sure we’ll be seeing more Viotti after the pandemic.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 22, 2021, 07:55:45 AM
Erik, did you find a 'pirate' of the Viotti/BPO M3?
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 22, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
I may or may not have...
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 22, 2021, 05:30:18 PM
The finale of the Rattle M7 is now on Spotify. I think this sounds really good.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: John Kim on February 22, 2021, 05:58:56 PM
I heard Rattle/BPO M7th before. It was fine but I like his EMI recording with CBSO much better. In fact, that one along with his BPO M6 & M10 IMO is one of the best Mahler outings Rattle gave.

John
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 22, 2021, 06:17:27 PM
John, I think that M7 is really good too. That finale is more exciting than this new one.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 26, 2021, 03:56:35 AM
The new Rattle BPO M7 is available for purchase on Presto, and will assumingly be available at midnight  Eastern US for streaming platforms.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 26, 2021, 04:55:16 AM
Actually, the entire 7th symphony is at Spotify now! I'd like to hear his Berlin M8 as well. My problem with Rattle's Birmingham M7 is that the mandolin is very hard to hear. Also, Paiste tam-tams just do not work in that finale. It needs to be a Wuhan, or a Wuhan clone.

Later on  .    .    .

I listened to just the finale of Rattle's BPO M7. Not bad. It has almost the identical timing to Janson's Concertgebouw finale (I think), but the Rattle has more 'oomph' to it. The timpani playing is great - the best I've heard since Vic Firth in Boston (Ozawa). I have only two minor complaints:  the first big tam-tam smash should be much bigger. Second, the ending peroration could have been stretched out more (where the deep bells and cowbells go nuts near the end). But really, it was quite good. The sound quality was plenty good as well.

I really want to hear the Dudamel M3. I think he's a much better Mahler conductor than many people think.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 26, 2021, 05:22:10 AM
I can hear the mandolin pretty clearly on this one! The tams aren’t very prominent in the finale, but they seem weightier and darker than his CBSO account. As a whole, and at “first glance,” this is quite a fine Seventh. The BPO is a bit on autopilot, but hey, what major orchestra isn’t these days?

Sometimes I feel like major orchestras are becoming too good, which is an interesting conundrum. It just becomes less thrilling when even Mahler’s Seventh can sound run-of-the-mill.

Also Barry, from what I recall after seeing the video performance online, the Rattle M8 is better than his commercial account as well. Less weird tempo changes and better instrumental balances. I can’t really comment on the singing; I don’t have a good ear for that.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 26, 2021, 05:41:17 AM
Rattle's Berlin M8 has a good line up of soloists, including the outstanding Johan Botha (tenor). I remember hearing some excerpt on Youtube as well, and thinking it was really very good.

However, THIS is the Mahler 8 I'm hoping they'll issue on DVD/BluRay someday!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsgDxiSpckM
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 26, 2021, 05:53:37 AM
I’ve been sampling in snippets. Haven’t got the full picture yet, but I’ve sampled key moments.

The first full movement I got through besides the finale (heard it last week) is the scherzo. Just finished, and I REALLY like what Rattle does here. He takes it at a much more moderate pace than Vänskä and Stenz, and that allows for all the spooky elements to come out, like in Bernstein and Zinman. And that snap pizz is deadly! Only place I’ve heard it better is Chailly’s Decca recording.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 26, 2021, 06:19:36 AM
I also like when the final peroration is dragged out, but the moment in question is actually marked a tempo in the score after the rit crescendo, and after that big moment it’s drängend (urgently) through to the end, which Rattle actually does exactly. I also like how Rattle observes the cowbells at fortissimo, but the bells slightly recessed at forte, which is what the score calls for. Admittedly I never considered Rattle much of a literalist until now.

Though yes, I personally prefer what Stenz and Tilson Thomas (LSO) do with the very end. It’s more revelatory.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: ChrisH on February 26, 2021, 04:35:07 PM


Sometimes I feel like major orchestras are becoming too good, which is an interesting conundrum. It just becomes less thrilling when even Mahler’s Seventh can sound run-of-the-mill.



This is a sentiment that I absolutely agree with. I also think that the recordings would be much more interesting if the conductor actually let the instrumentalists do their thing instead of dictating every little point. These musicians have spent their lives studying these parts. They won their jobs because of their musical ideas, yet it matters for nothing in the end. You can watch Gabor Tarkovi talk about the just the the opening of the M5 for 20 minutes on youtube. Yet, Rattle will dictate every single note of it.

/RANT
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 26, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
Be that as it may, I would not trade for earlier times when it comes to Mahler. And BTW, this Rattle/BPO M7 did not come to me as 'being on autopilot' at all. What I do think IS far to say - and I think it's also greatly a matter of the acoustical properties of the Philharmonie in Berlin - is that the Berlin Phil. plays in a way that all of the sections and all of the individual instruments produce roughly the same, dark hued timbre. That's a different topic.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 26, 2021, 09:05:31 PM
I should emphasize that there are much much better examples of an orchestra playing Mahler on autopilot than this. I just got a feeling of it, but not always necessarily in a bad way. The BPO sounds like a giant chamber orchestra, which I believe is something you’ve said before on here Barry.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 27, 2021, 04:32:10 AM
Oh yeah. I'm hoping the BPO will post more performances at Spotify.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: ChrisH on February 27, 2021, 02:28:54 PM
I don't want to go back to earlier time, either. This sentiment is why I tend to enjoy the smaller orchestras when listening to Mahler over the their more famous counterparts. To my ear, these smaller ensembles sound like they are actually trying. It's not a matter of quality to me, more they feel like they have something to prove. When I heard Zinman do the M6 with Tonhalle at Mahlerfest, this was very apparent when comparing to the 'better' orchestras that I heard when I was there.

Anyway, I'm going to take a pass on this set.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on February 27, 2021, 03:51:38 PM
That’s another reason I like the Düsseldorf performances so much. It sounds like they’re trying, and you can actually hear them make minor mistakes (which is ok, they’re humans!).

This BPO set feels very much like an ideal introduction to Mahler’s music, considering that it comes with video performances and a 100+ page book diving into Mahler and his music.

I would get this is a gift for someone, but for us collectors we just need to pick and choose the individual performances that appeal to us.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on February 27, 2021, 06:11:58 PM
Re: Dusseldorf vs. Berlin and others   .    .   .  That's fair - I agree with that. There does seem to be a small degree of inaccuracies in the Dusseldorf performances, but it's tough to even trace them down. It makes it interesting. There's a 'rustic' quality that I think is appropriate for Mahler. I agree that Mahler shouldn't sound TOO slick.

Just going by the timings, I would also venture to say that this BPO Mahler set would probably be excellent for anyone who just want to take one crack at it, and not collect a whole bunch of stuff like we have.

Everyone is making good points here.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on March 12, 2021, 03:06:03 PM
A lengthy but informative review of the cycle: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Mar/Mahler-sys-BPHR200361.htm

The Sixth with K. Petrenko is the next release, by the way. The first movement ‘preview track’ is on Spotify. I think the first movement alone sounds fabulous.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on March 12, 2021, 06:23:33 PM
I'm glad to see that the Dudamel M3 has been getting some good press. I may very well purchase the download of the entire set. Good stuff.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on March 12, 2021, 07:01:02 PM
Agreed. It seems the Petrenko M6 is the only "weak link" they mentioned, though it doesn't even seem that weak. I like my M6's to be zippier, less exaggerated, and less apocalyptic. Otherwise it's a bit too kitsch for my taste.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on March 13, 2021, 04:59:50 AM
Yes, sometimes Mahler was just flat out wrong on his own music - most of the time, no. The same holds true for Bruckner   .    .    .   maybe even more so.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on March 26, 2021, 04:35:48 PM
The K. Petrenko M6 is out. To me, this is phenomenal. It’s exactly how I like M6 to sound in nearly every aspect.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on March 26, 2021, 05:29:36 PM
To just give a bit of 'back credit', the BPO certainly would have received good coaching on M6 from Karajan, Abbado, Rattle and - I believe (not certain) - Michael Gielen. I think one really good thing about Petrenko, is that he'll take the BPO to some repertoire they haven't visited much before, if ever.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: erikwilson7 on March 26, 2021, 05:37:33 PM
Good point. I'd like to see the BPO do Shostakovich. Do they even have a history of performing or recording his music much at all (besides Karajan)? Now that the BPO sounds like a very expanded chamber orchestra, it'd fit that music well I think. Especially Shosty 1, 6, 8, 9, and 10. Heck, they'd probably sound great in 15 too.
Title: Re: (Good news) Recordings in the BPO Mahler cycle will be available individually.
Post by: barryguerrero on March 27, 2021, 06:35:39 AM
Early in his career, Bychkov recorded S5 and S8 (I think) with the B.P.O. They were OK. Not too special.