gustavmahlerboard.com
General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Leo K on June 30, 2007, 12:05:09 AM
-
Anyone have any thoughts on the Brahms Symphonies on SACD? Recommendations?
--Leo
-
I heard Haitink/LSO/LSO is pretty good.
Apart from SACD, I have Maazel/CVLO, Sanderling/BSO, Bohm/VPO/DG and they are all excellent.
John,
-
I heard Haitink/LSO/LSO is pretty good.
John,
Well, you never heard it from me, and have heard many times that I consider his LSO recordings absolutely gawd awful boring. Like his late Mahler, these are uninspired, paint-by-numbers performances. Blech!
I love Brahms. Especially the 1st and 3rd. There is no recommendable SACD cycle as far as I'm concerned. My choices would be:
Brahms 1 - none on SACD (Alsop! Run away! Run away!)
Brahms 2 - Jansons (good but not great performance, good SACD audio)
Brahms 3 - none on SACD
Brahms 4 - Walter (good performance, expansive, noble, not so good SACD sound, SACD is no better than RBCD)
I have not yet heard the SACD recordings by Sieghart on Exton, available only from Japan, but I'd really like to. I am endlessly optimistic that someday, someone will turn up on SACD who will knock my socks off.
-
Amphissa,
Well, I heard you and I stand by my judgement. I still consider Haitink one of the most eminent and active Mahler conductors of our time.
John,
-
Of course he's eminant and active. Otherwise, he'd be either retired or dead. I still stand by my opinion that he was better earlier in his career.
-
My favorite Brahms is Abbado's BPO set...now I wish that was SACD.
I haven't heard Haitink's Brahms yet, but I think I might give his SACD Brahms a try.
--Leo
-
I'm pretty sure that the Semyon Bychkov/WDR S.O. Koln (Cologne) Brahms recordings are SACD/CD hybrids. They're on the Avie label. As I recall, they've received pretty favorable reviews too. They're a tad expensive.
Barry
-
I'm pretty sure that the Semyon Bychkov/WDR S.O. Koln (Cologne) Brahms recordings are SACD/CD hybrids. They're on the Avie label. As I recall, they've received pretty favorable reviews too. They're a tad expensive.
Barry
Oh, right. I had forgotten the Bychkov cycle. They are actually pretty good. Nothing extra special, but good. And the audio is pretty decent too. I guess if I had to recommend a complete cycle on SACD, that would be it. But the price is definitely stiff.
I also rather like the Abbado set, Leo. I'm not a huge fan of Abbado's Mahler, but certainly he did good with Brahms. Maybe they will get around to remastering them and making them available on SACD.
-
Amphissa,
Well, I heard you and I stand by my judgement. I still consider Haitink one of the most eminent and active Mahler conductors of our time.
John,
Tell me you really like his LSO Brahms after you actually hear them. ;D
-
Well, my recommendation was based on what I read in ARG. Reading it again, it doesn't look like they said every symphony is good under Haitink. So, you may be right.... But I know I LOVE Haitink's recent live M6th with LSO, his ECYO M9th, and VPO M3rd (1995 Mahlerfest), etc.
OTOH, there are his recordings I don't care much such as M8th.
John,
-
I've been collecting a lot of Brahms symphony cycles over the last two years or so. I am not real happy with my SACD ones to date. I don't like Walter's expansive B4, and the Columbia SO plays better on some of their other recordings. I also have a Kobayashi/Czech PO B2. It is expansive to the point of utter dullness. I also dislike Haitink's LSO Live B4 (and have also downloaded and dislike the B2 LSO Live). I have avoided the Bychkov cycle because it got a bad write-up from Classics Today. I would be very interested to hear some additional impressions of it, since Bychkov's DLvdE and M3 are both decent and worthwhile. The price isn't scaring me away, it is the reviews at this point. It is rather amazing that there is so little Brahms' in terms of Symphonies and/or Piano Concertos on SACD (as compared to Mahler).
Fortunately there is plenty of Brahms to enjoy on CD. I have the Abbado symphony set on order. I really love the sets by Wand, Dohnanyi, Levine/CSO and VPO, Karajan (DG's most recent collection), and Szell. Eschenbach has a pretty decent one with my local heroes, and even the Solti is quite nice. The worst one in my collection is the Lennie/DG one.
I also have a shelf-full of his Piano Concertos, which are probably my favorite in the Genre (OK, so I probably like Beethoven and Rachmaninov as well on any given day).
-
I treasure the Abbado Brahms cycle deeply...no other Brahms, except maybe Furtwangler, sounds quite so compelling and full of nuance and character as this. Abbado's set also has the best sounding Brahms I've heard. Perhaps he and the BPO (and the recording engineers) were in a certain mood, or chemistry when performing these Brahms works...I don't know, but it's a shame Abbado's BPO Mahler isn't recorded as well. Abbado's BPO Mahler is often great, but often he is comprimised by troublesome sound.
It is a pity that there are no great SACD Brahms sets out there :'(
-
PentaTone Classics, which has produced some great SACDs, is recording the Brahms Symphonies with Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra under Marek Janowski. Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 were recorded last March and Nos. 3 & 4 will follow on November. The recording of the Symphony No. 1 paired with the Haydn Variations is to be released next month.
I've heard some rave reviews on Janowski's previous Brahms cycle, so I really really look forward to this one.
-
PentaTone Classics, which has produced some great SACDs, is recording the Brahms Symphonies with Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra under Marek Janowski. Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 were recorded last March and Nos. 3 & 4 will follow on November. The recording of the Symphony No. 1 paired with the Haydn Variations is to be released next month.
I've heard some rave reviews on Janowski's previous Brahms cycle, so I really really look forward to this one.
Good News!! I'll be on the lookout for these.
-
Janowski and Pittsburgh could be a real winner. But I gotta be honest with you folks, I prefer recordings of Brahms where they've pared down the string section in an effort to make the winds more audible and, hopefully, obtain more clarity in the inner voices. It's for that reason that I like the MacKerras Brahms cycle (Telarc), as well as the Berglund/Chamber Orchestra of Europe cycle (Warner). They may sound a bit odd at first. But once you get comfortable with them, you may prefer the clearer voicings.
Barry
-
I like the Mackerras Brahms quite a lot as well. To me, Mackerras is a seriously underrated conductor. He has made a lot of really fine recordings. And the Telarc audio on the Mackerras set is very good. Much better than the Abbado set. The Abbado set sounds congested, thick, lacking in transparency. The inner voices are not revealed very well. Of course, it is DG. They liked that "wall of sound" effect back then. I'm not always a fan of HIP, but Makerras makes a good case for Brahms played that way.
On the other hand, I do love Brahms played bigger than life. I don't really care how the orchestras back then sounded. If composers back then had at hand the instruments and musicians around now, they'd have not hesitated to use them. So, as far as I'm concerned, the opening and finale of Brahms 1st - the bigger the better. Blow my hair back and glue me to my chair with audio G-force. Make pretty in between, but make monster music at the edges.
I have an old video of Ozawa and BSO playing Brahms 1 in Japan. It may not be the most elegant Brahms ever performed, but the electricity in that hall is just magical, and the BSO play their collective butts off. By the time they are done, fingers and lips are bloody. Probably sounds like crap on CD, but watching that video is so much fun, who cares.
-
Great post there Amphissa....totally agree!!!!
-
Ozawa also made an outstanding set of Brahms symphonies with the Saito Kinen Orchestra for Philips. You can't find them now, but they're really very good.
Barry
-
Anyone like the Harnoncourt Cycle with the BPO?
--Leo
-
You know, I like most everything that Harnoncourt has done in the last 15 years or so. But his Brahms just isn't one of those things. To me, his Brahms just came off as really mannered.
Barry
-
You know, I like most everything that Harnoncourt has done in the last 15 years or so.
I did not care for Harnoncourt's Beethoven cycle at all, and sold it on ebay. I'm not sure I trust him in music after Mozart. I will never seek out Harnoncourt again for 19th century Romantic music, so I am not surprised his Brahms did not work for you. Maybe I just cannot get over my disdain for H.I.P. conductors.
I mainly listen to the Eschenbach set. I bought it here in Houston when Eschenbach was doing an autograph session at the now defunct Sound Warehouse store. :( There was a dearth of Brahms recordings at that time, so I thought it would be worth a shot. To my surprise, it is actually quite a good set. Aside from a few single recordings of some of the symphonies by other conductors, the Eschenbach set fills the bill for me.
-
I mainly listen to the Eschenbach set. I bought it here in Houston when Eschenbach was doing an autograph session at the now defunct Sound Warehouse store. :( There was a dearth of Brahms recordings at that time, so I thought it would be worth a shot. To my surprise, it is actually quite a good set. Aside from a few single recordings of some of the symphonies by other conductors, the Eschenbach set fills the bill for me.
Another Houstonian on the board!!! Woo Hoo!!!
-
Yes, and praying for the end of the Monsoons...