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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by John Kim on March 21, 2025, 05:15:45 PM »

Roland,

Turn the volume of Sado M6th up, way up!

I like it very much and think it's one of the best - playing, sound, interpretation - that have come out in recent years. Jarvi/NHKSO is pretty good too but compared to Sado it lacks character.

Did you try Bychkov/NYPO M6th?

John

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by Roland Flessner on March 21, 2025, 03:13:11 PM »

I listened to the Sado M6 yesterday and at the risk of sounding jaded, I was underwhelmed. While I do think Sado projects an idiomatic understanding of Mahler, the recording could be more transparent, especially in the string parts, and some other live recordings are more polished. At times the strings seem to be "swimming" with the rhythmic pulse not well maintained.

It is possible that I was spoiled by listening to the P Järvi M6 with the NHK SO. Execution is first class and the SQ delivers both detail and impact.Violin sections are antiphonally divided and when I hear the interplay between the sections it seems obvious that Mahler expected that placement. Järvi's conducting also brings firm propulsion and a welcome sense of narrative sweep.

Sado reinstates the third hammerstroke but oddly not the accompaniment that Mahler thinned out when he removed the hammer. The hammer itself is lacking in weight and sounds more like a big thwack on the timpani.

And finally, I admit that I AM jaded. I've listened to way too many M6s in the last week or so.

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by barryguerrero on March 21, 2025, 06:09:36 AM »

I too like the Y. Sado/Vienna Tonkunstler Mahler recordings. I think they are by far the best sounding orchestral recordings ever to have been made in the Musikverein (most of the classic Decca recordings of the V.P.O. were done in the Sofiensaal). The orchestra plays many of the same indigenous Viennese instruments that the V.P.O. uses, so they sound a lot like them. Frankly, I think the Tonkunstler has the better percussion section, which is important for Mahler.

Sado's M1 very successfully integrates "Blumine" into the standard, revised version of the symphony, by taking the Scherzo a tad slower than usual (with lots of swing!), and the "Frere Jacques" in minor round a tad swifter than usual (third movement). I like both his M2 and M3 very much as well. I don't own either the M4 or M5. I wasn't crazy about the soprano on the M4, but it is a good reading. As John has already informed you, the M5 was recorded on tour in the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg. For the M7, I was lucky enough to have friends who were vacationing in Vienna, so they picked up a copy of it for me at the Tonkunstler's ticket office in the downtown area (Herrengasse). The M6 will be coming out on CD's soon, but can be heard at Spotify and - I presume - Idagio. It is much better recorded than the much ballyhooed Bernstein/V.P.O. recording on DG. They will be performing M8 on the first weekend of June, so I will be very much looking forward to hearing that eventual recording.

Purely by coincidence, S. Bychkov/Czech Philharmonic are also doing M8 on the very same first weekend of June. I look forward to that recording as well.

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by John Kim on March 20, 2025, 08:35:38 PM »

Michael,

For the M2nd and 3rd I bought CDs while I was visiting S Korea. For the rest I downloaded files. I vastly favor the physical medium over files, so I plan to pick discs when their M8th and 9th are released.

BTW, Sado's latest release, the M6th is also terrific, beautifully played and richly recorded at the same venue, very expressive but not excessively, with a great sense of architecture and flexible tempi.

John

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by MichaelO on March 20, 2025, 07:58:04 PM »

Hi John:

Thank you very much for your reply.   I found your observations helpful and gave a good sense of Sado's interpretations.  Did you get these as downloads or streamed?
I will probably get the physical cds as I don't  do downloads etc.

Thanks again.
Michael

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by John Kim on March 20, 2025, 05:51:28 PM »

Michael,

To me Yutaka Sado is the Mahler conductor of our time. Save for the Fifth which was recorded first in the ongoing cycle I LIKE ALL OF HIS Mahler so far - M1, M2, M3, M4, M6, and M7. He has two big advantages going for him: 1) the Vienna based orchestra, Tonkunstler Orchester who plays authentically and idiomatically for him, 2) the outstanding acoustics of the Musikverein in which they were recorded.

Sado's readings are expressive and idiomatic but also very cogent structurally. He isn't too excessive a la Bernstein or even Levine, but he adopts flexible tempi throughout making good contrasts building power and drama solidly.

I particularly like his M2nd: you'll never hear more grand and moving Finale, especially the ending in which organ is very audible and Sado's slower-than-normal tempo helps tremendously build up the climaxes. But the rest of the symphonies are on equally exalted level.

I am eagerly waiting for the final two installments, M8 and M9 from Sado/Tonkunstler.

John

 

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Yutaka Sado, Tonkünstler-Orcheste

« Last post by MichaelO on March 19, 2025, 09:53:16 PM »

Hi:

Has anyone here heard Sado's Mahler recordings?  Could you please give me your thoughts on his interpretations.

Thank you.
Michael

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M5 -P. Jarvi/Zurich Tonhalle . . . not sure what to think (?)

« Last post by barryguerrero on March 19, 2025, 06:09:37 AM »

I wondered about that, as I think the very same thing happened when Oehms Classics issued the box set of the complete Mahler symphonies with Markus Stenz. The individual releases were SACD hybrids, but the box set was strictly two-channel. Sadly, there was a noticeable degradation in the sound quality. I got rid of the Oehms/Stenz box for that reason. Wisely, neither Tudor (Jonathan Nott) or BIS (Vanska) did that when they issued their complete box sets.

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M5 -P. Jarvi/Zurich Tonhalle . . . not sure what to think (?)

« Last post by Roland Flessner on March 18, 2025, 10:50:59 PM »

I do think that M5 is one of Zinman's stronger performances in the set, but something is odd about the SQ throughout, lacking in presence and transparency. I wonder if it's because they were originally recorded for surround sound. I have the SACD disks but I play the Redbook two-channel layer, lacking an SACD player or surround equipment.

In an interview, a Telarc engineer explained that when they record in surround, the primary recording is very dry and ambience is provided by the surround channels. He said that it can't be mixed down to two channel, and that they are really making a separate recording with different mics for that. I've always wondered if RCA tried to turn a surround recording into two-channel stereo for the Zinman set. Their other Zinman/TOZ recordings in plain old stereo don't sound like the Mahler set.

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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Bychkov/Czech Phil. M3 - I think this is a home run!

« Last post by barryguerrero on March 18, 2025, 02:12:57 AM »

I not only like Bychkov's Mahler 3 a lot - which took by surprise - I LOVE his recording of the Tchaikovsky "Manfred". He makes sound like a unified and GREAT symphony (which it is).