Question about M3 and M7 recordings

[bluesbreaker]

Yesterday I found an old recording of M3 by Scherchen and orchestra by Leipzig, recorded in 1960. I am wondering if it's any good? I am no fan of historical recordings, but if the sound is acceptable then I may consider it. Any thoughts?

For M7. I think I asked this before in the old board, but here it is again. I am looking for a M7 that has LOUD and HUGE bells a la MTT/London in the finale. I don;t mind how the first 4 movements being played, as long these make sense. I know Abbado/Berlin has the reputation of having loud bells, but how about Barenboim and Levine/Chicago, and Rattle/CBSO?

[Leo K]

I really like the Scherchen from what I remember, but then again I am a huge fan of historical recordings.  If you can deal with the limited sound then definitely get this!  I've been looking for an actual copy for some time and it's hard to find. 

[barry guerrero]

For huge bells in the finale of M7, I'd rank them Abbado/BPO (recorded closely); Levine; Barenboim; Rattle. Among them, I like the Barenboim the best overall.

For a historical M3 recording, the Schuricht/Stuttgart one is supposed to be quite good. I'm always very leary of Scherchen. Just speaking for myself, I can think of very few pieces of music I'd want to listen to in mono, less than the Mahler 3rd. That's just me.

Barry

[Berni]

It should be easy to get the 1960 Scherchen M3 as Tahra re released it in 2003. Number is TAH 497-498. They call it a "new mastering". Sound is a problem but I find the opening of the finale just mind blowing.
This was not the first time that Scherchen had conducted M3 in Leipzig. That was in 1921. Now a recording of that would realy be of interest.
Regards
Bernard Lamb
 

[sperlsco]

Re: M7 Bells

Undoubtedly the Abbado/Berlin has the best/loudest bells at the coda.  The live Tennstedt (difficult to find these days outside of Japan) is a close second.  I'll try to give the others a spin in the next few days and let you know.  In fact, if I can find some free time this week I'll try to post the final minute of some M7-5's on Rapidshare so that you can compare.  The ending to M7 is critically important to me.  I like loud bells and also a big fanfare from the trumpets and horns. 

BTW, you really should purchase the Abbado/Berlin M7.  For my money, Abbado and Lennie own the M7, each having three superb commercial performances (2 CD's and 1 DVD apiece).  Plus the Abbado/BPO M7 should be easy to find and cheap.   

[bluesbreaker]

Hey scott, thankx for helping! Yea the final minutes of M7/5 is also critical for me. Love to hear brass screaming and bells smashing there! So I guess I am considering the Abbado /Berlin and the Levine/Chicago (the latter must have kick ass fanfare!) Of course the Abbado is easy to find, since it's "mass produced"!

[barry guerrero]

I really wouldn't entirely discount the Barenboim M7 because all five movements are very good. The two Nachtmusik movements - plus the central "moonlit" episode in the first movement - are very atmospheric. Yet, they're very well contrasted in terms of tempi. Also, those who are big fans of the first movement of M7, should probably hear the Boulez/Cleveland one at some point.

Barry

[bluesbreaker]

I will defenitely listen to Baremboin's version one day, but since I dont have the money and time to digest many cds at one time, so it's got to wait. And by the way, these days I don't understand why M7 discouraged many people. It's a fantastic night journey!
Barry, how does the finale of Boulez sounds by the way?
The reason that I want a M7 finale like MTT/LSO is that I cannot find that recording here in Taiwan. Is it easy to find in the US? I remember it was out of print at one point.

And M3 again. I hear everytime people rave about Barbirolli's live version on BBC, but I also heard that the finale is pretty bad. Anyone can comment on this?

[barry guerrero]

The Barbirolli M3 could have been really good if EMI had gone through with the project, and gave him rehearsal and recording time with the Philharmonia. The playing of the Halle Orchestra in those days was very substandard - very second or third rate. The sound isn't all that wonderful either. There's no question that Barbirolli had good instincts and judgement in his conducting of it. But as a gesamtkunstwerk, it falls waaaay short in my book. I don't find it very fun to listen to at all - just vaguely interesting.

I believe that the MTT/LSO M7 is still in print in the U.S. However, if it's just mainly the finale you're concerned about, it's actually a bit better on his SFSO remake. But overall, I like his conducting better on his earlier LSO one. I also like the sound quality better on the LSO one too.

[barry guerrero]

I can now confirm that the MTT/LSO M7 is still in print in the U.S. In fact, it's been reduced to a mid-price "twofer" (it's on two discs). I think that this is somewhat under-rated M7, and I really like it better than the newer SFSO one.

Barry

[bluesbreaker]

I heard the MTT/LSO M7 when I was a student in Boston, and the impression was it was similar with Lenny's Sony recording, but with more laid back tempi in the finale, although just as exiting (think the bells!). Your review on classicstoday.com brings me back some memories though.
But "twofer"? I guess that means its accompained with another work right? As far as I have seen in amazon it has no filler.

The M7 I have are the Tabakov with SofiaPO and the Lenny's Sony recording in the box-set. Both reign supreme in by book and the finale wth Tabakov really kicks some major asses!

[barry guerrero]

By "twofer", I mean that it's spread out on to two discs, but you're only charged for one - so to speak. You're correct in pointing out that it doesn't have a filler.

Barry

[Ivor]

       Re M7/5 bells

   Just played thru those i have - Abbado/CSO;Abravanel;Bernstein;Kubelik;Scherchen/53;Solti;Tennestedt;Haitinck;Rattle;Klemperer(oh dear);Halasz;and Horenstein.

   The loudest bells belong to Abbado in Chicago,just beating Kubelik. The latter does wonders with the gawky brass figure before the last two chords.

    in one or two the bells are amazingly nearly inaudible e.g. Solti of all people.

    In that coda I ialways want to hear the two smashes on I don't know what - it sounds like a semi-reverberant tam-tam,or a thick metal sheet. Lovely.

    the 7th is one of my favourites and is wonderfully wild and original;how many other symphonic movements open with a drum solo? The finale is better if you don't demand that it be in a form you know. Playing it a lot helps.

    Ivor

[barry guerrero]

" the 7th is one of my favourites and is wonderfully wild and original;how many other symphonic movements open with a drum solo? The finale is better if you don't demand that it be in a form you know. Playing it a lot helps".

Exactly. And yes, there are two tam-tam strokes just before that final peroration - often times inaudible in many recordings. The bell parts are both "tiefe glocken" (deep bells) and cowbells.