Boulez M8 (DG) - what I wrote at Amazon.com

[James Meckley]

On disc 2, track 16 @ 3:55 how come I don't hear timpani?

John,

I have the Universal Edition score of Mahler 8, which is surely the edition Boulez used. At that spot in the last movement (figure 214), a sfp timpani roll starts on B-flat and continues for four measures. The accent is observed to different degrees by different conductors, but I agree that it's not heard at all on the Boulez recording. As Barry said, someone probably just missed the entrance. On the other hand, I have at least one other recording on which it seems to be missing as well, so perhaps there's more to it.

EDIT: I just checked a few recordings, trying to find the one I had remembered. It's the Bernstein LSO recording. On that one, though the accent is completely missing, the roll does begin very delicately on time. All the other recordings I checked have fairly dramatic accents at that spot including, interestingly enough, Boulez's 1975 BBC Symphony recording. On Boulez's new recording, the accent as well as the entire roll seem to be missing, which does suggest a missed entrance. I'll be interested to read what Barry has to say.

James

[John Kim]

Thanks, James.

I can't hear it all  so the percussionist must have missed the entrance.

It may be a small effect locally, but I think it diminishes the power of the ending somewhat .

John,

[James Meckley]

It may be a small effect locally, but I think it diminishes the power of the ending somewhat .

I certainly agree. Back in the 70s when I had only two M8s (imagine that)—Solti and Bernstein—I wondered why Solti's had the timpani accent and Bernstein's didn't, and I always missed it when I listened to the Bernstein.

James

[James Meckley]

Speaking of Mahler 8, here's a review of Gergiev's performance in Washington, DC night before last. Apparently he used only about 300 performers (!) which must be some kind of record.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/20/AR2010102006027.html

James

[Henry James]

Since I have a mind so fine that no idea can penetrate it, the 8th has always been the Mahler symphony that I have had the least connection to.

But the Boulez recording has made the most sense of the symphony to me of any that I have heard.  And I do have to state that I love the clarity of the sound, both from the musicians and the recording.

I had a similar reaction to his Bruckner 8, though I get that symphony much more than I ever have Mahler's 8th.

[barry guerrero]

Funny, but I'm the other way around. I know it's just me, but I don't care much for either the scherzo or finale in Bruckner's 8th. I also think the slow movement is a tad too long for its material. More and more, I've been thinking that the 8th might be Mahler's most perfect work. But, of course, that's entirely debatable. For me, the best Bruckner symphony through the first three movements is the 6th, but the finale is a dog (relatively speaking). Overall, my favorite complete, four movement Bruckner symphony is the 7th.

When it comes to 9th symphonies, I'm the other way around: I greatly prefer Bruckner 9 to Mahler 9, but only in its normal three movement form (I'm not sold on the conjectural finale business). I see absolutely no need for a finale to Bruckner's 9th.

[Prospero]

 I don't know the Boulez 8th. But I must note that after more than 40 years of concert going, I heard the young Nezet-Seguin last June conduct my first live Mahler 8th in Montreal with a double orchestra (both the Montreal Metropolitan and the Ottawa orchestras at about 150 players) plus multiple choruses in the vicinity of 350 voices (including two children's choirs) plus the eight soloists. The experience was overwhelming. Much as I admire the 8th on recording, the symphony seems to me a uniquely communal work. At least for now, I still can't get the ocean of sound of the live performance out of my head and my pulse. So I will need to wait longer before approaching the work on record again.

Enjoy all your favorite recorded version(s), but try, if you haven't already, to hear it live.

Best to all,

Tom in Vermont

[Roffe]

Yeah, a live performance of the 8th can be really breathtaking. I heard it for the first time in 1985 in an indoor sports arena (the local concert hall was too small) also with two combined orchestras and seven choirs (totally 850). When the first chord with the "Veni creator" from the choirs, orchestras, organ, and solists sounded, I got goose bumps all over my body. It was a totally magnificent experience, like nothing I had ever experienced before at a concert.

[waderice]

Even better yet is to be  part of a M8 performance!  The one time I performed it (two performances), I sang in Chorus I.

Wade

[Roffe]

I bet. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a singer, nor do I play any instrument.

[Leo K]

I would much rather be in the audience. Otherwise my attention would be too taxed in a participatory nature to perform, rather than allowing my social personallity to drop into the sound 

--Todd

[waderice]

I would much rather be in the audience. Otherwise my attention would be too taxed in a participatory nature to perform, rather than allowing my social personallity to drop into the sound 

To each his own, but still, it's an exhilarating experience having all those magnificent eddies of Mahlerian sound swirl all about you!

Wade