Author Topic: New release M 10 Piano Transcription  (Read 17368 times)

Offline Don

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New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« on: February 25, 2010, 04:49:09 PM »
While browsing the MDT website for new releases, I came upon this recording which immediately stirred my interest, but also caused me to wonder how it really would sound:

"This fascinating disc introduces the listener to a completely new experience – that of Mahler’s 10th Symphony – from the performance edition by Deryck Cooke – transcribed for solo piano by Ronald

Stevenson (1st Movement) and Christopher White (2nd-5th movements). Whilst not slavishly attempting to reproduce every orchestral sound on the piano, there are quasi-orchestral effects in places, but it should be regarded as a piano piece – or perhaps more appropriately a ‘piano commentary’ on the performing draft of the uncompleted 10th Symphony.

Christopher White (b.1984) graduated from the Royal Academy of Music in 2007 with first-class honours, as well as awards for academic and practical music making. He gained a Masters Degree from the same institution the next year.

Divine Art DDA25079

I admire Ronald Stevenson for his Busoni, Sorabji and his wonderful composition Passacaglia on DSCH so perhaps his transcription of the Adagio might be ok. White is a total unknown to me, so I can not comment.

I offer this as a heads up to collectors and completists (is that a word??) of M10ths. At nearly $19 it is not a cheap disc for sure, but I will probably get it. Not sure if the "Divine Art" label is distributed here in the US.
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Offline Leo K

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 05:10:51 PM »
I'd have to think awhile about this one...not so sure I'd enjoy it as a solo piano piece.  Sounds like it has possibilities though.

--Todd

Offline James Meckley

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 05:16:12 PM »
I'm very glad to hear of this recording. I was thinking just last week, as I re-listened to Cooke's famous 1960 BBC radio program and heard him play several passages from M10 on the piano, how helpful it would be (to me) to hear the entire symphony performed this way. It would take the various orchestrational decisions others have made out of the picture, and let me hear just the melodies and the harmonies abstracted—just the notes, so to speak. This experience could then serve as a baseline from which to judge the effectiveness of the various orchestral realizations.

James
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 06:59:10 PM by James Meckley »
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
Henry Krehbiel, New York Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 06:08:35 PM »
I agree. It could be useful for study purposes, if nothing else. What I'm wondering is if they would go with Cooke I, or leave in the added suggestions from the Matthews brothers (Cooke II and III). I'd rather it be based purely on what Mahler left, for the most part.

Offline John Kim

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 06:27:36 PM »
I once or twice followed Cooke's finished score with Mahler's original transcription for pianos and it was a revelation. I'd definitely want to hear the recording.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 08:49:05 PM »
.    .    .   then there's the whole issue of the alleged note corrections that Rudolf Barshai made. The problem is, Mahler's scribbling was awfully difficult to disseminate - especially when climbing many ledger lines above the treble staff.

Offline mike bosworth

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 03:10:47 AM »
While browsing the MDT website for new releases, I came upon this recording which immediately stirred my interest, but also caused me to wonder how it really would sound:

"This fascinating disc introduces the listener to a completely new experience – that of Mahler’s 10th Symphony – from the performance edition by Deryck Cooke – transcribed for solo piano by Ronald Stevenson (1st Movement) and Christopher White (2nd-5th movements). Whilst not slavishly attempting to reproduce every orchestral sound on the piano, there are quasi-orchestral effects in places, but it should be regarded as a piano piece – or perhaps more appropriately a ‘piano commentary’ on the performing draft of the uncompleted 10th Symphony.

I would be more interested in a piano transcription based purely on Mahler's M10 sketches, in particularly those for the movements that he did not fully orchestrate.  This was actually done in the 1930s:  a piano four-hands version for movements 2, 4, and 5 written by Friedrich Block (1899-1945).  I'd love to have a recording of Block's transcription, but as far as I know there isn't one yet available.

Mike Bosworth

Offline Don

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 04:22:37 AM »
While browsing the MDT website for new releases, I came upon this recording which immediately stirred my interest, but also caused me to wonder how it really would sound:

"This fascinating disc introduces the listener to a completely new experience – that of Mahler’s 10th Symphony – from the performance edition by Deryck Cooke – transcribed for solo piano by Ronald Stevenson (1st Movement) and Christopher White (2nd-5th movements). Whilst not slavishly attempting to reproduce every orchestral sound on the piano, there are quasi-orchestral effects in places, but it should be regarded as a piano piece – or perhaps more appropriately a ‘piano commentary’ on the performing draft of the uncompleted 10th Symphony.

I would be more interested in a piano transcription based purely on Mahler's M10 sketches, in particularly those for the movements that he did not fully orchestrate.  This was actually done in the 1930s:  a piano four-hands version for movements 2, 4, and 5 written by Friedrich Block (1899-1945).  I'd love to have a recording of Block's transcription, but as far as I know there isn't one yet available.

Mike Bosworth

Yes, I had forgotten about that transcription and I would think a 4 hand version would be more interesting. As I have (obsession you know) have to have all the M 10s I can get my hands on, I will get this disc when available.
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Offline Zoltan

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2010, 01:56:04 PM »
.    .    .   then there's the whole issue of the alleged note corrections that Rudolf Barshai made. The problem is, Mahler's scribbling was awfully difficult to disseminate - especially when climbing many ledger lines above the treble staff.

Which is why they shouldn't be called "alleged note corrections" but "interpretations". ;)

In "The Musical Times, Winter 2001, p. 43-51" Frans Bouwman wrote an article titled "Editing Mahler 10 - Unfinished Business". He was proofreader for the Mazetti, revised Wheeler and Barshai editions and he mentions a few examples about the decision making choice regarding notes and chords in Barshai's version. Here's an excerpt:

"1. Disagreement
Four examples out of many [where Barshai choose to disagree with Cooke]: bars 170-71 of the Adagio (ex. 3). Barshai (as well as Mazzuca and others) reqad the second voice in the G clef as in OD [orchestral draft]. I agree here with Cooke et al. that Mahler made a mistake in copying. In bar 74 of the Adagio, the Matthews brother read the first note in the bass as C#, as in all previous drafts (for the first time so played by Chailly and his KCO), not as B in the OD (forming a diminished triad in root position) and which Barshai retains. Similarly I fail to agree with Barshai's E in bar 95 of 'Purgatorio', repeated in bar 83 of the Finale. The manuscript seems to sugegst Eflat. Finally I disagree with Barshai's leading-note E# instead of tonic F# in bar 390 of the Finale. The analoguous bar in the Bflat draft read the tonic Bflat.

2. Agreement
Maestro Barshai agreed to include Bflat-E-G chord (ex.5) of the second to last bar of 'Purgatorio' (so did Mazzucca & Samale), and to prefer earlier readings, as in bar 67 of the Adagio, last two quavers in horn: B-B# concert pitch, as in the short score and two earlier drafts (so did Erwin Ratz in his edition of the Adagio); in bar 145 of the F# Scherzo Cooke gives a low D, whereas Barshai agrees to F, as is more likely, reading all the drafts. In one instance, in bar 101 of Adagio he adopts Mahler's OD, whereas all editions copy the passing note A (concert pitch) from the SS [short score]. Alban Berg's notes support this: 'wouldn't this reading be possible, or something like it! That would be also thematically applicable and the parallel octave in cello would be avoided'. In bar 194 of the Adagio, the Bass tuba has a low note with many ledger lines. Barshai opts for a low Eflat. This results in 6/4 chord that occurs also in bar 181. To make this example even more ambivalent I could add that the newly unearthed SS page does not seem to support 6/4 chord assumption:"

As you all can see, there is a lot of guess-work and painstaking reasearch as to what Mahler actually wanted.

I would also like to add, that Frans Bouwman is putting together all known sources of the M10 that will be published by the IGMG for the 2010/11 jubilee. Should be a fascinating read, even for amateurs like me!

Offline James Meckley

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2010, 08:10:41 AM »
Speaking of Frans Bouwman, a participant in another Mahler forum recently uploaded the following audio recording of Bouwman's piano transcription of M10. It comprises two files which must be combined (concatenated) into one folder, which will then contain six FLAC files (the five movements of M10 plus one short file of applause). The details are as follows:

Mahler Symphony No. 10, arranged for piano four hands by Frans Bouwman
Performed by Katy and Frans Bouwman, Utrecht, 1986
No additional information was provided.

http://rapidshare.com/files/358676214/GM10_Bouwman.zip.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/358697047/GM10_Bouwman.zip.002

I combined the files using Stuffit Expander, and then imported them into Audacity to listen and to burn to CD-R. The first movement is marred by about a dozen sharp transient spikes, similar to loud LP surface "ticks"—digital artifacts obtained somewhere during processing—which I removed using appropriate software. Otherwise the recording is clean, and quite interesting to hear.

James


« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:09:00 AM by James Meckley »
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
Henry Krehbiel, New York Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler

Offline Leo K

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 05:03:52 PM »
Speaking of Frans Bouwman, a participant in another Mahler forum recently uploaded the following audio recording of Bouwman's piano transcription of M10. It comprises two files which must be combined (concatenated) into one folder, which will then contain six FLAC files (the five movements of M10 plus one short file of applause). The details are as follows:

Mahler Symphony No. 10, arranged for piano four hands by Frans Bouwman
Performed by Katy and Frans Bouwman, Utrecht, 1986
No additional information was provided.

http://rapidshare.com/files/358676214/GM10_Bouwman.zip.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/358697047/GM10_Bouwman.zip.002

I combined the files using Stuffit Expander, and then imported them into Audacity to listen and to burn to CD-R. The first movement is marred by about a dozen sharp transient spikes, similar to loud LP surface "ticks"—digital artifacts obtained somewhere during processing—which I removed using appropriate software. Otherwise the recording is clean, and quite interesting to hear.

James

Thanks James!!!!

--Todd

Offline Don

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 11:34:03 PM »
Thanks James, I am not sure if I can do all that fancy computer work, but I'll give it a try.
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Offline Leo K

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 10:12:48 PM »
I noticed this recording is on iTunes, and I'm listening to the sound clips right now, and it is a kind of revelation!


--Todd

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: New release M 10 Piano Transcription
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 08:53:03 AM »
I just got this recording, and I must say that I'm rather disappointed by it. First off, I just don't think that White is all that great of a pianist. No doubt, Stevenson's transcription is probably quite difficult for one pianist to play. But like my pianists these days, White puts  in tons of delayed entrances that are supposed to sound expressive and artistic. Instead, they sound like just what they are: delays. I realize it's probably difficult to crunch or spread-out some of the big chords and difficult harmonies. But the flow of the music just sounds too interrupted for my liking. Granted, I don't come from a keyboard background (give me Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans any day).

Also, I think it was a mistake to make a transcription based on Cooke. Someone mentioned that they probably should have based their transcription on the pure sketches instead. I agree. In addition, for whatever reason, some of the harmony choices just sound plain wrong to me. All in all, I'm a bit disappointed. I would advise someone to just get a really good recording of Cooke instead.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 08:54:37 AM by barry guerrero »

 

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