M8 ending - here's what I'd do (try) in a STUDIO recording situation

[barry guerrero]

Let's face, the end of M8 just doesn't work on many, many recordings (on some it works great). I've thought about this a great deal, and here's what I would try in a studio recording situation. Starting at the second tam-tam smash (well after the chorus has cut out), I would do a separate session with just the brass, offstage brass, organ and percussion. Perhaps I would leave the woodwinds just to add some 'tang' to the organ chording. But I would definitely remove the strings and choral forces (to open up the space behind - less bodies the better).

The organ should sound a true fortissimo (as marked) and the bass drum rolls should be a solid forte (no need for fortissimo). Ideally, I would like to beef up the offstage brass from their usual numbers, and make sure that they're well in a balcony section someplace (and not behind the orchestra, which is lame). Removing the strings (and possibly the woodwinds - who needs them?) and opening up the chorus area for more resonance, should help to bring out the tam-tam smashes more clearly. With the strokes that are doubled with cymbals (the final three), I would like to switch to suspended cymbals - possibly two pairs. Using a pair of mallets on each suspended, played on opposite ends of the cymbal, should give plenty of sound. I think this would work much better with the tam-tam (especially Wuhans) than plate cymbals.

This would help bring out the organ, offstage brass and percussion without everything just turning into a sonic mush. In an effort to avoid over saturating the mikes, many recordings are trimming back on the organ. I don't like that because that's not what Mahler wrote, nor intended. Anyway, fuel for thought.

[waderice]

Many years ago (before marriage), I took my mom to downtown DC at St. Matthew's Cathedral to hear M8 performed by the Catholic University Orchestra and augmented choruses.   I definitely remember augmented brass used at the end of Part II (more than twice that called for in the score), and I was totally blown away.  They were positioned in various places to the side and behind the audience at an upper level.  I don't recall how powerful the organ was, though with everything else, it probably was obscured in the overall welter of sound.   I think the percussion employed at this point was what was required in the score

At least, your idea makes sense, and I was glad at that long-ago point to have heard it done at least in part.  Plus, when costs and union considerations are not an object, let go with your fantasies!

Wade

[barry guerrero]

Dudamel had at least some extra offstage brass for his massive M8, and it really did help. That must have been VERY cool in St. Matthew's Cathedral.

[techniquest]

Interesting idea, but I'm intrigued - which existing recordings come closest to the sound you want to replicate?

[barry guerrero]

The ending to M8 is very well 'realized' on the Zinman/RCA one, if only the tam-tam were a bit more audible and fuller sounding on the final three strokes (covered over by the cymbals). Zinman has the right amount of organ; the offstage brass are well positioned, and there's a sufficient amount of bass coming from the sustained bass drum roll (with a great crescendo on the final chord). If the vocalists were a bit better, Zinman would have the best of all M8's, in my opinion. The three men are a bit weak, although Griffey (tenor) is a bit better here than he is on the MTT/SFSO M8.

The balances and tempo relationships are pretty much 'perfect' on the Antoni Wit/Naxos M8. However, the sound quality isn't quite as full and 'open' as it is on the Zinman (which is almost ten years more recent). As it stands, the Wit may well be the current best overall M8 (and everyone here knows, I'm not a fan of the Solti).

Thanks for asking.