Author Topic: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.  (Read 9254 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« on: May 31, 2012, 05:33:52 PM »
I feel that Jonathan Nott's 7th is the best, so far, in his ongoing Mahler cycle. His erudite yet slightly light-weight approach to Mahler works quite well with the 7th. What further helps his cause is that it's superbly recorded. My only slight reservation has to do with personal preference: I wish that the fourth movement (second Nachtmusik) were a full minute faster, while also wishing that the finale were about 30 seconds livelier as well. That said, there's sufficient guitar and mandolin in Nott's 'atmospheric' (slightly romanticized) view of the second Nachtmusik, as well as a huge onslaught of deep bells at the end of the finale. Anybody who's collecting the Nott cycle can add the 7th with full confidence.

For me, Nott's 7th doesn't quite stand up to Inbal/Czech Phil. (Exton), or even the plain-old Barenboim (Warner). I also prefer Zinman for his fabulous central (slower) episode in the first movement, as well as his quicker, more serenade-like treatment of the second Nachtmusik. But still, I could easily live with just the Nott. I think this is a huge improvement over his so-so M3 (he has a slight tendency to bog down in later movements, as well as not procure enough visceral impact out of his careful and 'highly considered' brass section (and certainly, the same could be said for Zinman)).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 09:52:49 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline ChrisH

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 02:15:13 PM »
Thanks for the review, Barry. I had been hemming and hawing over picking this up. Now I don't think I will as I've already got the Zinman and many others.  I am quite curious about the Inbal 7th with the Czech's his recording of it with Frankfurt is really quite good.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 06:46:52 PM »
The Inbal/Czech Phil. is excellent, but it's also really expensive. I paid nearly $50 for mine, but I sold a bunch of stuff to go towards it.

Offline brunumb

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 04:00:49 AM »
Hello Barry,
Can I get your reaction to the incredibly slow beginning please.  Mahler was apparently inspired by a rowing boat on a lake, but Nott's opening seems rather dead in the water.  I felt the urge to jump in and push.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 06:04:58 PM »
I'll listen to it again. I'm of the opinion that the opening is often times performed too swiftly for what's written. If it sounds 'dead', then it's most likely a problem with rhythms not being incisive enough, and/or textures not being made clear enough. If you look at the third and fourth beats in the first measure of  the score, the middle strings play repeated thirty-second notes (sometimes played as a tremolo - wrongly in my book). They should be made clear and distinct. Also, if you follow the tenor horn (usually played on Euhponium) and trumpet parts, there are clear distinctions between when they play their fast notes as thirty-second notes, and when they play them as sixteenth notes. The tempo needs to be slow enough to make those differences discernable (the thirty-seconds should sound twice as fast as the sixteenths). In spite of their great reputations as Mahler conductors, Abbado, Bernstein and Solti all play the opening too fast to make the differences in the rhythms discernable. I definitely remember thinking that Nott's Tenor Horn player could have played his part in a more rhythmic manner, and be less concerned about sounding 'melodic' in a smooth sort of way. Orchestral musicians ALWAYS have a tendency to want to make their parts sound 'pretty' because they think that that's what the conductor and audiences ALWAYS want. It's up to the conductor to tell the player not to 'pretty-fy' their part and concentrate on sharp rhythms instead. I feel that Boulez has done a real good job of 'objectifying' Mahler's opening to the symphony.

If you know much about the basic mechanics of conducting, I would conduct that opening with a subdivided four-beat pattern, so that you're essentially showing eight quicker beats.

There's another minor element as well: the trombones have a crescendo marking where they play their sustained long notes (two beats length). This is a problem of taking Mahler's marking too literally. By that, I mean that those two crescendos do need to be exaggerated a bit to have any real effect. If you play the dynamic marking too literally, the crescendo sounds underplayed and just ends up sort of 'clogging' your aural memory. Segerstam was real good about bringing out those two trombone crescendos.

As a further comment, I would not put too much stock in the 'rowing on the lake' business. Mahler said that the idea for the opening came to him while rowing across the lake. That doesn't mean that he was wanting to imitate the sound or feel of rowing. As always, there's some difference between what was 'subjectively' said at some point, and what's actually on paper in the score.

* Ahhh, now I remember one thing that did bug me about Nott's opening. At the spot where Mahler writes "less breit" ("breit" being the German word for "broad" or broadly), Nott kept the tempo quite slow there. Wait a minute   .     .    .   I might be confusing Nott with when I just recently re-listened to the Levi/Atlanta M7 at work. The point is this: there are some indicated tempo fluctuations before we reach the Allegro proper. It's up to the conductor to navigate those fluctuations in a way that's not contrary to what Mahler indicates (in my opinion, the composer got it right in about 95% of all cases).  Again, for my taste, Boulez gets the opening about as correct as anybody. In fact, I like his somewhat slower approach to the whole first movement, but find him largely too fast in the two Nachtumusik movements (especially in proportion to eveything else). Cleveland plays superbly though.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 08:30:39 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline brunumb

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 09:34:10 PM »
WOW  :o
Thanks for the incredible response Barry, very much appreciated.  It's a pity a lot of it goes right over my head as I am musically illiterate.
My reference to the rowing boat was more to get in my 'dead in the water' remark than to say that I expected a literal interpretation.
The funny thing is that I rather like Klemperer's glacially slow take on the symphony, but somehow when the Nott began I just reacted with "oh so sloooow".  As yet I have not listened to the whole movement which could make a difference.  I don't have the Levi, but when I get a chance I will check out the Boulez again.
Thanks again for making such an effort to respond to my rather trivial query.  I'm sure other readers will gain a lot of insight from it.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 12:43:16 AM »
Actuallly, Klemperer does a really good job with the symphony's opening. Unfortunately - for me, that is - he keeps that same slow tempo for the entire symphony! I know it's good in its own, unusual way, but I just can't listen to it. I tried again just recently and gave up! Different (oar) strokes!

Offline John Kim

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 04:58:15 PM »
I got a used copy at $9.99 (but no scratches at all!). I agree with Barry. This is an EXCELLENT M7th by all accounts. I like Nott's M9th too, but this one tops the previous recording and belongs to top tier of great recordings of M7th. Great sound.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: quick thoughts on Jonathan Nott's M7 recording.
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 05:01:38 AM »
Yeah, I think Nott's 'erudite' and slightly (just slightly) over refined approach to Mahler's textures works best in the 7th symphony. But just to keep me happy, he does pour on the deep bells at the symphony's ending. I can respect your opinion on this one (I still prefer a slightly more 'unbuttoned' approach to the last two movements).

Barry

 

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