Author Topic: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th  (Read 12236 times)

Offline Russ Smiley

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Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« on: July 15, 2014, 03:50:04 PM »
Russ Smiley

Offline pianobaba

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 06:22:06 PM »
I gave it a quick glance, I'll read it more carefully tomorrow. Just one thing (and this applies generally about music), sure I understand completely (Free! Accessible! has video!) why he inserts the youtube samples of some famous recordings. But youtube, with its awful awful sound, how sad it is probably the majority of people newly listening to (just snippets!) of this piece would be listening to garbage youtube sound on some garbage ear buds plugged into a garbage smart phone (probably on a noisy bus). Instead of a CD of LP recording on a high-end home stereo (not to mention a great orchestra live in a great hall!!!)

Sad.

Offline waderice

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 06:45:47 PM »
I gave it a quick glance, I'll read it more carefully tomorrow. Just one thing (and this applies generally about music), sure I understand completely (Free! Accessible! has video!) why he inserts the youtube samples of some famous recordings. But youtube, with its awful awful sound, how sad it is probably the majority of people newly listening to (just snippets!) of this piece would be listening to garbage youtube sound on some garbage ear buds plugged into a garbage smart phone (probably on a noisy bus). Instead of a CD of LP recording on a high-end home stereo (not to mention a great orchestra live in a great hall!!!)

Sad.


Two things involved here:

1)  Ignorance - They haven't taken the time to train their ears as to how to properly listen to orchestral music, or they do not have access to someone who knows differently on how to guide them in this venture.
2)  Desire for convenience - They're so used to multi-tasking (listening to music while doing something else), when they don't realize (or haven't learned) that listening to orchestral music requires full attention to the activity and setting aside of all else for a specific time period.  Conversely, in making ignorant sacrifice of sound quality, they feel that they need to have their music with them at all times, no matter where they are.

I hesitate to add a third point, but the addition of a high-end sound system may not be affordable for many people.

As far as I myself am concerned, I don't enjoy listening to orchestral music in an automobile, but when on a long trip lasting for hours, it certainly can be a treat to relieve the tedium of driving, even if the sound is inferior.  And it is recordings I am familiar with that I listen to while driving on a trip.

Wade

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 03:46:56 PM »
Actually, some Youtube downloads have very good sound quality. You can take advantage of that if you have half-way decent playback stuff hooked up to your computer. It's not that bad. I also think that the visual component helps for people who aren't familiar with a work. Think back on the first time you saw some percussionist pick up a giant wooden hammer and hold it way over his head!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 05:57:54 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 07:19:53 PM »
Better than usual nonsense about the sixth symphony. The business about the third stroke being deleted for the 'three strikes, you're out!', 'boogy man of fate' idea is probably pure nonsense since Mahler originally designed the movement with five hammer strokes in mind. And while it's true that the symphony has a "cathartic" quality - and thus, works as a classic Greek tragedy - it's also true that the finale is musically describing something far more than personal tragedy: it's a cataclysmic disaster on a global scale. With its added fourth trombone and tons of percussion, play just the finale to newsreel footage of the western front (WWI) and you'll see that it fits perfectly. Even though Mahler didn't realize it at the time - and couldn't realize it since he died in 1911 - he wrote a movie soundtrack to the first world war. This brings us to an even bigger topic I've wanted to discuss for a long time.

The entire middle period of Mahler has been, and continues to be, incorrectly analyzed and thus, completely misunderstood. The usual explanation is that Mahler wrote a trilogy of purely instrumental symphonies (5-7) based upon thematic material from the two Ruckert based song cycles, then composed this 'white elephant' of an anomaly know as the eighth symphony. The eighth symphony is not an anomaly at all; we've simply been viewing Mahler's middle period incorrectly for decades.  Mahler's turbulent middle period is actually his most 'public' group of works.

While there are always some private - and thus, 'autobiographical' - elements to all of Mahler's works, Mahler's middle period is about the human traversal from darkness to light. The real trilogy in this set are symphonies six through eight (M6 - M8); they form a 'darkness to light' trilogy with symphony five acting as a 'darkness to light' model for the proceeding trilogy of works. In M5, the switch from darkness to light happens pretty much at the second solo horn passage - almost a cadenza, really - in the middle movement Scherzo. The scherzo ends in major, the first movement in M5 to do so.

In symphonies M6 through M8, the switch from darkness to light happens at the brief passage of carnival-like music that's positioned towards the end of the middle movement Scherzo in M7. From that moment on, the basic overall tone of M7 changes until the very end. It makes no difference that the fourth movement is a Nocturne, as it also works as an Italian serenade (and in my opinion, works better at the quicker tempo most conductors are using these days). The end of the seventh symphony dumps you right at the doorstep for the beginning "Veni Creator Spiritus" of M8. Not realizing this connection (continued narrative) greatly explains why the finale to M7 has seemed like such a weird anomaly to so many folks. It works perfectly if one considers symphonies six through eight as something of a continuing narrative (almost like episodes of TV shows).

Yes, it's true that what I'm saying appears overly simplistic: there are always brief moments of darkness within Mahler's more 'enlightened' movements, and moments of bright light within Mahler's darker, predominately minor-mode movements. In fact, one of the hallmarks of Mahler symphonies is the constant interchange between major and minor modes (with the use of Phrygian being one of the minor modes implied in various places). But my overall point remains the same.

Symphonies six though eight are not private, autobiographical works, but are, in fact, his most public utterances. In symphony six - whether Mahler knew it or not (which is almost irrelevant) - he pointed the finger at what was wrong with an increasingly bellicose Austro-German society. The overt militarism of this symphony is its dead giveaway. Thus, Mahler 6 is simultaneously his most German and anti-German symphony. In a sense, it is a protest work.

On the one hand, Mahler gives more than just a nod to the standard Sonata-Allegro form of Austro-German symphonies as exemplified by Haydn through Bruckner (and it's completely immaterial which inner movement comes first). Yet, the finale is a symphony within a symphony; a common feature of many Mahler symphonies.

The first movement of Mahler 7 is basically a Reader's Digest (or Cliff Notes) condensation of all that happens in M6, only with a tighter narrative, vastly more modern harmony, and less reliance on a huge battery of percussion (and more efficient use of a smaller brass section). For me, aside from its more progressive harmonic structure, the only truly redeeming feature of the first movement (M7/1) is the gorgeous, 'other wordly' middle passage. I find it to be an extremely intense movement (and yes, it's 'progressive', whatever that's worth). 

Mahler 8, of course, is the polar opposite to the finale of M6. While Mahler 6 gives us all the warning signs of where Europe was heading in the early 1900's (particularly Austria and Germany), Mahler 8 offers what he felt to be the only real solution. This brings us to Beethoven.

In Beethoven 9, the message is to stop what you're doing and begin loving your brother - a nice message if also a tad naive and unrealistic ("Hell is other people"). In Mahler 8 - the Art Nouveau equivalent of Beethoven's 9th - Mahler tells us to change the world by first changing ourselves. In M8, Mahler is giving a somewhat private message in the most public way imaginable (hence, the enigmatic character of Mahler symphonies in general). That makes sense when you consider that Mahler had envisioned future performances of the 8th symphony being given to tens of thousands of people (a performance of M8 at Rio de Janiero's Impanema  Beach was allegedly attended by a quarter of a million people). Even though Mahler backed away from the "Barnum & Bailey" aspects of the preparations to its premiere in Munich (including cringing at the "Symphony of a Thousand" moniker), he fully embraced the 8th as being a symphony for the multitudes. The evidence to that fact is very clear. Faust's redemption is everyone's redemption - if we want it.

As we approach the 100 year mark to the first day of World War I, it becomes increasingly important to know what Mahler proposed (whether HE knew it or not)  was simply too little, too late. It's my opinion that Mahler himself didn't fully understand what it was that he had composed, and was thus not very helpful in explaining his works to those who were curious, as well as not being able to assuage his critics. His strange, tortured behavior at the premiere of M6 in Essen - along with his enigmatic utterances on the symphony - give witness to this fact. The usual 'autobiographical' explanations of Mahler's works persist because many people are simply not willing to take the next step: understanding that when Mahler speaks of himself, he is speaking for everyone. His song cycles and symphonies are works for the 'every man', even if it takes a somewhat erudite person to absorb them.

Isn't it interesting, then, that symphonies six through eight all got premiered in cities that were highly appropriate to their context? Think about it. M6 was premiered in Essen, where, undoubtedly, people from the Krupp enterprise must have attended (Krupp was not only world's largest producer of munitions, it was the largest industrial complex in the entire world at that time). Obviously, the message behind symphony fell on deaf ears. Even Richard Strauss was somewhat clueless (and Mahler didn't help his own cause at all).

Mahler 7 gets premiered in Prague, which is interesting because in some respects the 7th is Mahler's most 'Czech' (Bohemian? .   .   .  Moravian?) symphony. We don't hear so much mountain peaks in M7, but more the descriptions and rumblings of forests and meadows. The first Nocturne in M7 (Nachtmusik) was described as possibly being a night walk through such a landscape, possibly moonlit. To this day, M7 remains a signature work for the Czech Phil. (the recent Inbal recording from Prague is outstanding).

Mahler 8 gets premiered in Munich, which was, and remains, Germany's premiere party-town. It's interesting to note that Mahler was also far more relaxed for a performance he gave of M6 in Munich, along with expressing a desire to possibly settle in Munich (someday) to his wife Alma. And to this day, good performances of M8 continue to happen in Munich, even though the original venue is not available for use (but still stands).

My message is clear and emphatic: stop thinking of Mahler's middle period as being one of purely instrumental symphonies (5-7), it's immaterial whether they're purely instrumental or not. What's important is the context and the message behind these works. Think of M5 as being a 'darkness to light' prototype for the trilogy of symphonies six through eight. If nothing else, Mahler 8 will make a lot more sense in that context. These are Mahler's most public works, expressed, at times, in private utterances.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 08:21:17 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline pianobaba

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 08:45:49 PM »
Very interesting analysis Barry, I was waiting for you to mention Beethoven's 9th, because that piece really is underlying so much about the German symphony over the century that followed.

I could agree that the speculation that Mahler's motives were partly influenced by a reaction to what was happening in the Austro-German world, but I believe if true, it would have been unconscious; not quite a deliberate concious act such as writing a specific protest song about the Afghan war. I very much agree that the traditional myth about the 3 hammer strokes etc does a disservice to the enormous scope and weight of this music.

For myself, I wouldn't want to approach symphonies 6-8 as a traditional darkness-to-light narrative, one of the things I love so much about the 6th is how it ends in an utter black hole, no hope, no hope of hope. And it is this which I find completely negates the (by then) conventional symphonic narrative of Beethoven's 9th (all the more bleak because the music *could have* worked its way back to a rapturous transcendent end like Bruckner's 8th). Though maybe I will listen to 6-8 with your narrative in mind.

It might not come as a surprise that the 8th is my least favourite Mahler symphony (I still love many things about it, I'm not talking about my least favourite bug scraped off my shoe  ;) )

Offline waderice

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 12:21:07 AM »
Barry, I noted with interest your analogy of Beethoven 9 to a 20th century version, which was his 8th.  I take a different view - regardless of the era in which men live, in order to reach Beethoven's ideal, they must first resurrect themselves to that higher state of being, which is what I felt Mahler was doing in M2, even though there was a personal struggle on his part, which is really intended for everyone.  Once the goal of resurrection has been reached in M2 can men only begin to approach Beethoven's ideal.

Wade

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 06:28:39 AM »
"It might not come as a surprise that the 8th is my least favourite Mahler symphony (I still love many things about it, I'm not talking about my least favourite bug scraped off my shoe")

I used to feel that the people who didn't fully embrace the 8th were not truly devout Mahlerians. I'm much tolerant of that position now for a very good reason: many people like Mahler's music with the singular exception of the 8th. I do feel, however, that the traditional explanation of Mahler's middle period - where the 8th is treated as a weird anomaly - doesn't do much good in getting people to embrace the 8th. But after all, Mahler did write plenty of happy endings within his first five symphonies. What I wonder after all that is simply this: do people who have a problem with the 8th also have a problem with the finale to M7? If so, then I have a problem with someone taking that position.

Having said all that, the 8th came very easily for me (as did the finale to M7). I didn't like the 8th when people tried to force-feed the Solti/CSO recording of it to me (and to this day, I don't care for ANY of the Solti/CSO Mahler recordings). It stuck me as technically competent, but it didn't make me like the piece at all. Instead, it was the Bernstein/LSO recording that sent me over the cliff. It hit me like a bolt of lightening. Therefore, I need to be tolerant towards those who haven't had such an experience. I've also been extremely lucky with the 8th in terms of live performances that I've attended.

Wade, I agree that Beethoven's 9th is an extremely difficult act for anyone to follow. Brahms certainly struggled with that problem. I also agree that M2 approaches that "higher state of being", as you put it. I also think it could be argued that Beethoven's 9th remains a better piece of music, musically speaking, than either M2 or M8. My point is that while Beethoven says, "hey you, love your brother or else", Mahler's Faustian message is one of changing the world by improving ourselves first. At least, that's what I take from it. It's also - quite obviously - a celebration of the creative spirit. On a musical plain, I love the use and transformation of musical themes from Part I, into Part II.

In spite of all the noise M8 makes, Mahler's borrowing and transformation of themes and motifs approaches that of Wagner's, but executed in an even more subtle fashion. I also feel that the end of M8 is something of a redux of the ending to M2; only that, for my taste, it's even better when performed with the correct balances (organ, bass drum roll, gong/cymbals, offstage brass, etc.).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 07:02:23 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline Prospero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 08:49:08 PM »
Barry Guerrero: "Symphonies six though eight are not private, autobiographical works, but are, in fact, his most public utterances."

Roller and Mahler on the Essen 1906 rehearsal and performance of the 6th.
Roller: "How can a man of your goodness express so much harshness and cruelty?"
Mahler: "It is the cruelty which has been inflicted on me, and the pain I have had to suffer."
La Grange, vol 3, p.410.

Difficult to accept the idea that the 6th is not profoundly personal.

Tom in Vermont

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2014, 09:10:39 AM »
It's my belief that Mahler himself had little understanding of why he had written, what he had written. Therefore, of course it was extremely personal with him. But then why express that with such a huge, 'public' utterance as the sixth symphony? My point is that people take the statement that you cite above, and then extend that idea to the point where people say that the sixth symphony is about Mahler's personal problems and personal insecurities. Do you really believe that? I don't. Mahler often spoke of outer forces taking hold of him and shaking him until a composition was finished. Further more, what precisely does Mahler mean when he speaks of 'cruelties' and 'pain'? What cruelties? What pain? I believe that he's speaking of himself as a sort of protagonist for the 'every-man'; a hero of repressed classes and repressed minorities - just the sort 'every-man' who would fight and die by the millions within just a few years time. Musically speaking, Mahler 6 is a sort of Austro/German "Rite of Spring" before the Rite of Spring ever happened (by just a few years). For example, take the mixed meters that happen throughout the trio sections of the scherzo movement, and cross them with the huge brass dominated, 'walls of sound' from the finale and you get, what?   .    .   .  VOILA!   .   .  the Rite of Spring. It's also very much related to Bruckner's 5th symphony, but that's an entirely different topic - one that involves studying the inversion of intervals within motifs, as well as a look at counterpoint in general (as well as the rhythmic augmentation and diminution of various melodic themes).

People often say that Mahler showed no interest in politics; he didn't need to show interest because he was literally right, smack in the middle of Austro-Hungarian Hapsburg Empire politics. The French people that Mahler befriended later on had themselves been right, plumb in the middle of the Dreyfus affair, as well having been involved in the French end of the escalating European arms race. I think that was part of the appeal - part of the reason why they turned their attention to a man like Mahler. I don't think it was because they were saying to themselves, "oh look, here's a man who's really sensitive and really knows how to suffer". Far from that. I'm sure their 'take' was that they had encountered a man who, with artistic sensitivity and artistic sensibilities, put his finger on the pulse of the whole European problem at the turn of the century. Bernstein spoke of Mahler holding up a mirror to Austro/German society at that time. That's precisely what I mean by saying that the sixth symphony is simultaneously Mahler's most German AND most anti-German symphony. I don't think that Mahler was expressing his own personal problems as much as he was holding up a mirror and saying, "look here  .   .   .  these terrible things can happen to me AND to you, and to everyone else. We could lose it all".

Look at it this way: people easily understand Mahler's early period, where he's musically speaking of youth, soldiers, fair maidens, young love, rocks, meadows, forest animals, the birds and the bees; man's relationship with god, as well as man's flirtations with the true meaning of love. Everybody gets that. And everybody gets that the last three works, the so-called 'farewell trilogy', are about just that: saying farewell (deeply personal works indeed). But few really 'get' - really understand -  what Mahler did in his middle period and why. As a result, symphonies 7 and 8 come off as weird anomalies to many Mahler fans. Because of looking at the middle period in a misguided way, the middle period remains something of an intense mystery to many people But it's my opinion that nothing by Mahler is an anomaly,  not even the 8th. I'm not saying that I'm right, because we don't have Mahler around to comment on these thoughts, or to correct us. These are things that I intensely believe, regardless of the rather enigmatic or 'cryptic' things that Mahler said about his own middle period works; AND - more to the point - the things that Mahler left unsaid upon the table.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 09:22:24 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline Prospero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2014, 05:07:31 PM »
Many ways of seeing and hearing such complex work.

Though, look at Mahler's heart wrenching inscriptions to Alma in the manuscript of the 10th. Surely, the influence of great personal anguish is clearly shown there.

Since Wordsworth at least, the artist can be both personal and representative. And as far back as Dante, certain artists bridge personal and public dimensions in enduring ways.

Of course any great artist goes beyond the merely personal and reaches out to us in unforeseen ways. Mahler has certainly become one of the greatest artists in speaking to a large world.

Best,

Tom in Vermont

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Symphony guide: Mahler's 6th
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 05:24:43 PM »
"look at Mahler's heart wrenching inscriptions to Alma in the manuscript of the 10th. Surely, the influence of great personal anguish is clearly shown there."

Tom, refer back to this sentence:

"everybody gets that the last three works, the so-called 'farewell trilogy', are about just that: saying farewell (deeply personal works indeed)".

"And as far back as Dante, certain artists bridge personal and public dimensions in enduring ways."

Agreed - no argument there at all.

"Of course any great artist goes beyond the merely personal and reaches out to us in unforeseen ways. Mahler has certainly become one of the greatest artists in speaking to a large world."

Very well put. My point is that Mahler does just that, most intensely, in his often mis-analyzed middle period: symphonies five through eight.

 

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