Opinions of Haitink/Pentatone M8 (?)

[barryguerrero]

I haven't picked it up yet, but I will. I'm sitting out about 18 recordings of M8 as it is (lots of 'pirates')!!!

[Prospero]

Can 8 ever be adequately recorded or reproduced?

The breadth and depth and communal nature of the work seem beyond the capabilities of either analog or digital recording and playback.

I have only heard 8 live once with Nezet-Seguin and his Montreal Metropolitan plus Ottawa symphonies, three large choruses plus two children's choruses and eight soloists. Nothing else I have head in 50 years comes close to it.

I am fond of the Horenstein and listen now and again to others. But what sound system can equal the range and awe of a good live performance? Maybe like the Beethoven 9th and a number of other big works the communal and live nature of the experience is essential to the meaning.

Yes we love our favorite recordings, but . . .

Maybe a minority view. But in this case, for me, recordings seem to be for study until the real thing comes along.

Best to all.

Tom in Vermont

[barryguerrero]

I jut pulled the trigger and ordered a very inexpensive used copy (Pentatone) through Amazon. I look forward to it.

[waderice]

So, with all of the above, no one really said if the Pentatone Haitink M8 sounds better than the Phillips pressing.

The original basis for this thread asked for comments on the quality of sound of the Pentatone Haitink M8.  Barry only asked if anyone commented regarding Haitink's M8 recording, to be specific if they were referring to the Pentatone SACD or a regular Philips version of the recording.  He has regularly gone on record as disliking Solti's M8, and he mentioned a few other early M8 recordings by various conductors that he much preferred.  I was referring only to the Pentatone SACD, since I knew it would be better-sounding than the regular CD.

Both the stereo LP and the regular stereo 44.1-kHz, 16-bit CD of Haitink's M8 had to have been manufactured using the same production master, which is a 2-channel stereo mix of the 4-channel quadraphonic recording system that Philips was using at the time of the recording of Haitink's M8.  The Pentatone SACD is a direct remastering from the original 4-channel quadraphonic tapes, digitized to a 24-bit, 96-kHz transfer.

If I were going to do a sound comparison on various versions of Haitink's M8, I would do it using either the original LP (in excellent condition, which I don't have) or the pre-recorded open reel (which I used to have) and the Pentatone SACD.  But since I have only the 16-bit, 44.1-kHz CD and the 24-bit, 96-kHz SACD, the SACD sounds better than the regular CD.  The Pentatone SACD raises the stakes for Haitink's M8 much higher than any previous version of his recording.  Compared to Solti, the 24-bit, 96-kHz version of Solti's M8 on Blu-ray audio brings out its engineering deficiencies because there was so much post-recording tinkering with the recording during the editing.  Two instances are overlaying of the organ part because Vienna's Sofiensaal (where Solti's recording was made) had no organ, which was recorded elsewhere, and the offstage brass were also recorded separately.

In conclusion, it's too bad that the Pentatone SACD versions for this (and other Philips recordings recorded in 4-channel) sound didn't get the attention or publicity that they deserved.  I also have Pentatone releases of Haitink's M5 and Colin Davis' recordings of Berlioz' Requiem and Symphonie Fantastique, all in better sound than the regular 2-channel originals.

Wade

[Russell]

Here are a couple of reviews (including one of my own) of the Haitink SACD on the now-defunct SA-CD.net site:

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/3853

Russell

[barryguerrero]

Thank you Russell. These are helpful and I'm really looking forward to my copy arriving.

[waderice]

Resurrecting this earlier thread about the sound quality of Solti M8 vs. Haitink M8.

Someone at the Facebook Mahler group posted a link to an online version of an article in High Fidelity Magazine about the making of both of these recordings back in the early 1970's.  Gives information as to the source of the organ in the Solti recording and other portions of that recording that were later assembled into the rest of that sonic morass and gives further credence to my belief that Haitink's recording is superior, sound-wise, than Solti's.  According to both articles, it sounds like Haitink's recording was more of a relaxed affair than Solti's.  Go to page 20 of the magazine to read the article.

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-High-Fidelity/70s/High-Fidelity-1971-12.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0wrYN-5gTUACbIPzm4dXj3fwYyvSHaINKT4tVYJO-d7uLh8TzRA3jK1_I

Also, go to earlier posts in this thread to read the back-and-forth between Barry and me as to why I feel that Haitink's recording is sonically superior.

Wade

[barryguerrero]

I finally did pick up the Pentatone issue on Haitink's M8. It is somewhat better than the Philips bluebook issue. I wouldn't say it's a huge improvement. I do like it very much, with the exception of the fast ending to Part II. Everything else is very good. As you know, I've never warmed up to the Solti. It was technically good for its time, but I prefer the 1966 Bernstein - recorded five years earlier.