Sibelius's 5th

[Wunderhorn]

I've owned both Jarvi's new DG symphony set as well as Blomstedt's made in the 90's with S.F. Sibelius is the most effeminate composer I've ever heard; the climax in the finale of the 5th is like the Animus of Wagner replaced by a Anima we've never heard before, same thing with the finale to the 6th, it is like getting your first kiss from a girl while playing in the winter snow.  

[ggl]

That music may be "masculine" or "feminine" is an interesting notion.  Off the top of my head, I'd say Beethoven's music is the most masculine of the great composers -- aggressive, rhetorically powerful, very much stand-up music.  Near the other end of the continuum I'd place Debussy -- soft-edged, seductive, mysterious, etc. 

As for Sibelius, I don't hear his music as feminine at all.  Consider the First Symphony, or Finlandia, which both strike me as masculine, rhetorical, even nationalistic.  The Sibelius 5th is more modern, shows some evidence that Sibelius may have listened to the Impressionists, and is a more subtle and complex piece of music.  But the music -- even the great ending -- still seems, to me, the product of a masculine mind.

Wunderhorn, you referenced the Jungian concepts of anima and animus in your post.  That leads me to think of the Jungian idea that, as we grow as human beings, we integrate our personhood -- which means we take on some of the qualities of the opposite gender.  I hear more of the feminine in Sibelius's last great work, Tapiola, than I do in his earlier major pieces. 

[Wunderhorn]

Perhaps it has to do with the Sibelius melodic scale and linear harmony that sounds of the Orient; Valse Triste also has much of this obliqueness I'm talking about; obviously Sibelius has some dark and eerie qualities often as well, but this reminds me of hell's scorn. Martinu also strikes me as effeminate, Nielsen as masculine.

[Jot N. Tittle]

Interesting concept! To bring it home, how do you classify Our Man Mahler?

     . & '

[barry guerrero]

Sibelius' third and sixth symphonies always make for a nice coupling, since they're both such nature driven works - something that Sibelius would vehemently deny. I agree that the sixth is more "feminine" sounding than "masculine". But since we live in such gender bending times - with men often times being more sensitive to the arts and their feelings than women, and women often times being emotionally stronger and more practical - I'm not sure that such classifications mean a whole heck of a lot anymore. As always, we might find our best insight from the composer himself; of which, Sibelius said something along the lines of, "I keep tossing cold water on them, and they keep coming back for more". The sixth is actually my favorite of all the Sibelius symphonies.

The fifth is not a work that I warm to easily. For one thing, the famous transition passage in the first movement simply takes up waaaay too much time putzing around first, before making the big key transformation actually happen.  I also don't like the symphony's ending, which strikes me as just being more clunky and awkward, than innovative. I've always intuitively felt that there was something fundamentally wrong with the 5th. Sure enough, there was a four movement first version that had never been recorded until the BIS people got there hands on it. I don't think that the first version has made very many converts, but I like it better. As I recall, the first version has an ending that - while perhaps too conventional sounding - feels a lot less awkward than Sibelius' revised ending. I don't know - I'd have to go back and listen to the first version in detail. I just remember it being somewhat more sprawling, but also less strange, awkward, and patchwork sounding. If you're truly curious, you can get this first version from BIS.

[Ivor]

  I'd say Mahler was masculine with a well-developed feminine side.

  Sibelius seems to me masculine in his quality works, feminine in his salon stuff.

  For the more feminine, Boccherini, mendelssohn, Scriabin.

   Ivor